new house - can't work combi boiler

[Andy Hall]

Impossible. One of your claimed benefits for the combi is the space saved in not having a cylinder and airing cupboard. These ideas blow that notion away.

[Doctor Drivel]

My God you are dumb. A radiator on a wall take little space at all. Have you ever seen the size of a cylinder? That is the round thing the cupboard that gets hot.

[Katya Robin]

thanks very much for helpful reply :o)

I'm a bit thrown that it has an integral mecahnical timer ...surely this is the job of the thermostat/programmer?

oh :-(

does this mean it won't be up to stratch for running the CH?

it's a big stone built 4 bedroom house on 4 floors

...

thanks very much for sugegstions for bath + shower _ I'll experiment before calling out engineer.

cheers

- Katya

[John Rumm]

Some have their own primitive timer - and some users / installers choose to suppliment this with an external one of more sophistication. The internal one may allow you to set the heating to Off / Once / Twice and Continuous, perhaps also enable or disable HW production.

If you have an external programmable thermostat, then you would normally leave the boiler set to run the CH continously, and leave it to the programmable stat to actually turn the heating on an off when required.

It may be ok on heating unless you have a very difficult to heat house. (i.e. very poor insulation, exposed position etc). Often 15kW or more will do the space heating in a three or four bedroom place without much difficulty. (For example, the worst case heating load on my place is

8kW, and that is with an external temperature of -3)

The time you need loads of power is when you are trying to heat the HW on a single trip through the boiler.

Stone built tends to make it harder, four floors tends to help a bit (i.e. losses up from lower floors are gains for upper ones). If you wanted you could do heatloss calculations to work out what heating power you actually require. (Have a google back in this group for explanations of how - or post again for more detaisl)

Let us know how you get on....

[Dave Plowman (News)]

What you've got to realise, Kev, is that Drivel has his own standards for everything, so his idea of high flow is not the same as everyone else's.

My storage system fills a bath with water as hot as anyone would want at a rate of near 50 litres a minute between the two taps. Regardless of the time of year.

I'd like to know of any combi that gives approx 25 litres a minute at 60C all year round, but I'd not like to pay for it and the upgrading of the gas and water mains to feed it. Because my mains doesn't deliver 50 litres a minute.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

More figures plucked from the air. Half that is more realistic.

[Andy Hall]

For what else would you have used the space? If you consider the footprint of the typical cyinder in an airing cupboard, the airing space is either above or additionally to one side of it.

One does not hear complaints of people not having enough airing cupboard space even if it is only that immediately above a cylinder in a 600mm^2 cupboard. Why would one need twice that airing space through the cupboard not being there?

This type of heated cupboard is intended only for short term placement of laundered items to remove the last vestiges of water. It is not suitable for long term storage of most things because they will deteriorate.

I suppose that one could divide the cupboard horizontally with 300mm of insulation, to keep the top half cool though........

[Uno Hoo!]

I agree. I'm quite prepared to accept that some combis are better than others - but I still wouldn't want one. With a tank full of hot water we can fill a large bath in no time at all with both hot and cold taps running to achieve a comfortable temperature - and both my wife and I have power showers every morning and there's always plenty of water available. Conventional boilers are less complex and easier to work on than combis (more space inside the cabinet for a start) and to my mind are a far better bet. The only downside to a conventional system is the space taken up by the water cylinder - but this does have the advantage of creating a warm 'airing cupboard' where towels and bedding can be stored, and where damp towels dry out nicely ready for the next day's showers!

Kev

[Uno Hoo!]

And it would be a fair while before I recovered the cost of the new boiler + fitting. So long as my present boiler continues to function as well as it has for the past 30 years (and it's a Baxi that Drivel likes to run down!) then I will hang onto it. If it aint broke - don't fix it!

Kev

[Uno Hoo!]

That's a new one on me. Throughout my 36 years of married life my wife has always stored towels and bedding in the airing cupboard and I've never seen any signs of 'deterioration' ! Most airing cupboards today, with heavily insulated tanks, are just mildly warm - how on earth can that cause material to deteriorate?

And defeat the whole object of the exercise??

Kev

[Dave Plowman (News)]

It of course depends on the premises. In a small flat or house a system combi could well be the only option.

But if you've got the room, a conventional unpressurised storage system complete with header tanks will be the cheapest option with performance

- if well designed - way above any combi. Regardless of Drivel's dribbling.

He obviously lives in a one bedroom flat and never washes.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

You've also got to take into account the cost of repairs of a modern condensing boiler. Most seem to need expensive repairs every year or two which can often negate any gas saving, cost wise, if you have to get a pro in.

A perfect example is my brother. He had his old BF cast iron boiler replaced with a condenser after BG said they couldn't service it anymore. Gas savings are approx 20% cost wise. But it's broken down on average twice a year and he's glad he has a BG service contract.

I've not got a service contract - thank gawd - and will replace mine with a condenser when it needs it. And will take advice here from anyone other than Drivel on the best value for money type that can be DIY fixed as and when it goes wrong.

[Doctor Drivel]

What you've got to realise, Kev is that this Plowman is the board idiot, amongst other internet loonies.

[Doctor Drivel]

He doesn't want to pay for it. Yes, that is what he said.

That has a tank taking up space in the loft, and a large cylinder taking up space in a useful cupboard, making the cupoard look like a school boiler room with valves and pumps hanging off it.

And they take up space yet again and vibrate the house down causing much noise next door may complain. A common cause of complain in flats, terraced and semi detached house. People don't like being woken up a 6.00 a.m. They are anti-social causing noise pollution. I know of one inscident in flats were the management agents made one flat take out the power shower pump because of the noise it made. They were told to fit a thermals store, or use an electric shower, if they wanted a high pressure shower.

Your knowledge of boilers is sadly lacking. Modern system boilers are the same as combi's with the only difference being a water section added.

A hell of a lot of space in ting British homes.

Other methods are there to create an airing cupboad using small rads taking up no space at all. As a cylinder takes most space in a cupboard there is little space left for clothes to be heated anyway.

[Doctor Drivel]

My God, he came out with some sense!!! You didn't write that! One of your mates at the clinic did it. The two of you sat there in a haze of flatulence trying to figure it out.

After all that optimism, it was clear a false start, as just misinformation and babble emerges. The UK is the only country in the world that has tanks in the loft. And what is this fool going to do for showers? Obviously run around the shower to get wet.

[Doctor Drivel]

[Doctor Drivel]

What would be fair?

30 years ago they were good boilers. BTW, I know about boilers. I'm a pro, so don't get shirty. What advice I give to you is free. Remember that. If you want to rub up to the group lunatic you are really scraping the barrel.

You make back the cost in about 3 to 5 years, in energy saved. Remember fuel is increasing in price all the time. Payback will be a lot shorter than you think. Then there is the greater comfort conditions a new boiler brings, in modulation and rapid heat up. Keeping an inefficient clunker is not a wise thing to do.

[Doctor Drivel]

The caber tossing lunatic is at it again. Any figures to justify this silly suggestion. Er, no, he is just making it up again with the inmates at the clinic. I have had a condensing boiler for quite a time and not ONCE has it failed in any way.

[Doctor Drivel]

Er, er, er, racks with clothes on? Yes, that is it... clothes on racks.

You are jesting of course, as normal don't think that way. Once the cylinder is removed, it is amazing how people say, wow look at all that space. Elson make square stiorage vessels to maximise airing cupboard space. They are mainly fitted at the top of the cupboard releasing the space below. Few people have heard of them.

Tell 99% of the women in the UK that.

[Doctor Drivel]

Andy makes thing up.