Network, Mains, Alarm and CCTV from the house to the garage

[Sparks]

I want to lay mains, Alarm, CCTV and Network (CAT5) from my house to the top of the garden (to the garages)

The CCTV part, initially was going to be 6 lengths of RG59, however I have heard you can run CCTV over UTP? Can I - would be a lot cheaper on the cable if I can! If I can, can I run four cameras down one four pair cable?

When I bury this lot in the ground, I presume I will need at least two pipes - one for the mains, and one for the rest? Or can I shove it all down one pipe?

If I do, as I expect, need two pipes, how far apart should they be in the ground? (I dont fancy digging a really wide trench!!)

Thanks!

Sparks...

[Andy Hall]

There are a few ways to do it:

- Media convertors. THese may make the exercise more expensive that the cable.

- Network cameras

- Standard cameras connected to old PC in garage run as capture server

With the second two, the sources are then effectively run over ethernet. Viability depends on what you want and already have,

Definitely not. The mains should be in any case in SWA cable buried to 450mm and separate from the pipe containing the other stuff. I don't believe there is a specific rule on this, but 150mm or more should be OK.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

[BigWallop]

Mains would be wire armoured cable I take it (?). If so, then spacing between the alarm signal wires and the power cable wouldn't really matter. You will need foil sheilded multi-core cable for under the ground anyway in this situation.

CCTv would need to be tested for ground loop potential before you go with UTP transmission, so the RG59 is the best option when in doubt. UTP can drag interference into the system, in the form of ghosting over the images, and this can be prevented by using ground loop filters at the ends of the UTP, but that also builds up the cost of the system. Stick with the bundled RG59 idea, is my advice.

Alarm wiring needs to be taken in the form of a node, which means taking a heavier power pair to a node panel in the garage and then wiring back with ordinary foil sheilded stranded cable to the control panel. This lets you take any detectors to one power supply point, with battery back up, and then all signalling is handled through the multi-core cable. It's voltage drop you're looking out for here, so a power supply in the garage would work, but make sure it has battery back up.

[Paul]

I would stick with RG59 if I were you in this case, bound to give much better results and be a lot easier in the long run. Cost should not be that much more than Cat5 if you buy a drum rather than lengths.

Someone has already answered the 2 pipes question, so I won't duplicate, but here is an idea to consider. The electric has to be buried to a minimum depth as the other poster mentioned. But the cat5, alarm and RG59 are all low voltage so there is nothing to stop you having a narrow trench, laying the power at the correct depth, then laying the other cables a few inches above the power. If someone puts a spade through your network/cctv you are going to be upset, but no-one gets a shocking suprise. (although, I am sure somone might be able to find a regulation against this, like a really long spade that goes through your low voltage, then into the mains, electrifies the cat5 and blows up your pc... but if you own spade that long, then things stupid like that are bound to happen one day!)

Paul

[Sparks]

If the mains was in a pipe, would it need to be armoured?

I suppose it is cheap enough!

The alarm panel I have is an old Scantronic 9500 It works with branches out of the panel, and these connect to LIM's there is already some 8 core (not shielded) running in an old pipe (not by me!) I am using this, with a PSU in the garage for the various PIR's, along with the hold off supply for the bell box

I am relaying all this, as I need to run more stuff anyway..

[Sparks]

I have seen these, and also noticed the price (considering I will need 12!) I was also dubious about any quality loss

The need to connect to a multiplexer, so that's out!

Anyone know of a place to buy RG59 cheap!

If the mains was in a pipe, would it need to be SWA? I thought the pipe would be enough protection (And the projected run will have a path laid on top anyway, so highly unlikely anyone will be digging it up!

[Humbletarotstar]

What sort of total load on the mains?

What, in terms of alarm? One detector? Two? Just contacts?

How many cameras? Is the remainder of the system conventional, or is it a first camera?

CAT 5.....

Why six lengths?

You *can* run video over UTP, subject to criteria being met, such as ground looping.

There are other solutions too, dependant upon your answers above.

Don't know - depends is the only honest answer anyone can give you on the info you've given so far.

What sort of distance - I don't know your garden, or where your garage is :-)

Not strictly. Which is not the same as saying you can run both mains and ELV in the same pipe.

You can, however, run armoured cable for your LV.

Only if you want a headache.

Apart works up and down the way too!

Dig a trench deep enough for your armoured - three feet. Lay the armoured and tape it.

Fill in the trench at least a foot. Run your pipe for the ELV.

Completely backfill the trench.

But more info if you want meaningful answers!

[Sparks]

no more then 20A - Why does this matter, I didn't ask about cable ratings here...

a LIM from a Scantronic 9500 (4 wires), with a local PSU for detectors, and bell box hold off

+ve trigger (1) +ve for the strobe (1)

4 cameras all connecting to an existing multipler in the house (I already have three cameras connected to this via Co-Ax)

What about it?

4 cameras, one feed back for a monitor, and one spare - why do you ask?

I tried connecting a camera directly to a pair in some CAT5e, and the picture was not good, not awful, but Co-Ax was a lot better.

The cable from, from the multiplexer would be approbamatly 35 Meters

[Humbletarotstar]

Coz you might get away with Hi-Tuf rather than SWA. And you will at

20A, but it'll need conduiting.

I see.

Loud thinking, about it.

I was thinking out whtehr or not CAT5 was viable for what you were trying to achieve - but I'd say not based on what you want to do.....

....unless money is not the object in this. IP cameras are an option if money isn't an issue - either by means of a video server or using IP Cams with built in servers. Axis Communications do a fairly basic IP Camera for about £200 or so, but you'll be getting into thousands if you go for a "decent" IP cam or video server.

I'd stick with co-ax.

As for UTP, the least you'll need for acceptable quality is a UTP launcher and the associated "other end". You can, of course, buy UTP cameras....

Stick with the co-ax.

My own personal notion would be as I say below, running mains cable - probably 4 core, 10mm SWA, at a depth of about 3 feet, backfilling about a foot, then running co-ax in a conduit, backfilling about nine more inches and then running alarm and CAT5 in conduit.

[Sparks]

10mm! - thats capable of about 60A!

And why 4 core?

I was thinking 2.5mm (29A) 2 core

You don't think the Coax, alarm, and network will be happy together then? Is this because of the network - I could use STP?

Sparks...

[Humbletarotstar]

In free air, yes.

Contingency.

and keeping the worms warm.

It would be underspecified, I think - not now, perhaps, but sometime before you fancy digging up your garden again.

The cost differential would also argue for bigger cable.

Its your preference, but mine would be to keep it separate.

I just have this strange passion for keeping video away from other stuff where possible.

Don't know that it's necessary though.