Does anyone know where I can buy casein glue, hide glue, or some other *natural*, (i.e., animal or vegetable) water-resistant glue for hardwood? (I only need a small amount!)
Or perhaps someone can tell me some brand/product names that I can look for in my local B&Q/Jewsons, etc?
In my youth, there was a well-known brand of casein glue called cascamite, but it looks like the modern offerings under that brand name are now synthetic.
Thank you,
JD
Have a look in the axminster site .They might have something that suits you sir .
:-)
Could one ask why it has to be natural?
ISTR that Cascamite one shot discolours Oak if that happens to be your hardwood.
regards
Some would cosider me obsessive, but I'm making a musical instrument (wooden flute) from a design that is about 150 years old. I just want the (arguably perverse) satisfaction of doing it without using any materials that could not have been produced 150 years ago. That's more-or-less it.
Plus, I am keen to try out these natural glues out of curiosity.
JD
that I might settle for. I'm surprised they don't seem to stock casein glue. I wonder which is weakened the least by dampness and human skin-oils: casein or hide glue... Does anyone know?
JD
Thanks for the warning. I'm using maple on this occasion.
JD
I cannot immediately find the confirmation of this but as far as a I can remember cascamite was one of the first synthetic glues and was originally made using milk as a basis One of the WW2 twin engined aircraft (can't remember it's name now) was made of wood using this glue and always smelt of sour milk. Maybe that's apocryphal and no doubt there will be someone coming along to tell me that's all a load of cobblers !
But one thing I'm pretty certain of is that Cascamite or anything like it would not have been available 150 years ago. All glues then were hot melt glues which have the advantage for musical instruments that with a suitable bit of gently applied heat they can be dismantled for repair.
Rob
The original Cascamite, or at least the powdered stuff in a tin I recall from the 1960s, was, as far as I'm aware casein glue. (Casein being a protein by-product of milk, as I understand it.)
Probably the de Havilland Mosquito.
What part of the flute d'you need this kind of glue for?
There are very few glued parts on a period flute, and where there are they're glued with shellac ( the head lining, for example ).
Regards,
Thanks for the info. This one is not a Western flute, so there is no head lining. The flute was made in two halves (like a piece of tubing sliced longways in two) which need to be joined. Playing will tend to cause condensation which could build up inside, so the glue should be fairly impervious to water.
JD
PS. I've never heard of shellac being used as an adhesive before. Perhaps I should try it... Is the regular type (sold as a type of varnish) suitable?
JD
These type of 'native' flutes were glued together with resin, typically obtained from Pitch Pine trees. They were often additionally bound with hide ties, or sometimes covered in skin. If you want to keep it authentic you'll need to find a Pitch Pine tree ( or do a google for "pine pitch" - some specialist retailers sell it....the dried stuff is violin rosin ).
Shellac is quite a common adhesive for woodwind instruments - its chief properties being that it melts easily and sets quite hard. Flute head liners, as mentioned, is a typical application, as is securing metal tenon sockets. It's still commonly used for setting pads. You can buy standard flake shellac from good decorators stores under the Liberon name. I wouldn't recommend it for your application...there will be insufficient surface area to maintain a good bond once the wood starts moving - and it wouldn't be authentic to the type of flute you're making.
Regards,
Thanks for the interesting input. I happen to have some violin rosin. Would it be feasable to turn this into a practical adhesive - say, by pulverising it and boiling it, or whatever?
I remember once rading about how the adhesive sap (resin) could be extracted from pine wood. Do you happen to know how it was done?
JD
I don't know...I guess it depends on how it's dried. It could be that some essential ( as in necessary ) oils are lost which might affect the tenacity of the reconstituted resin. Worth a try on a test piece...but I think you'd be better off getting the liquid stuff for the project in hand.
Again, I don't really know....but it shouldn't be hard to find out. I suspect it's much the same as the method used to extract birch sap etc. - i.e. cut a vertical groove in the tree, poke a stick in the slot, stick a jar underneath. It has to be a Pitch Pine for your application...ordinary Pine sap isn't quite the same thing.
Regards,
Mosquito?
It's hard to avoid! Buy any large quantity of pine and some of it will be waste due to exposed resin pockets. I think I have a jam jar with a bit in somewhere.
Hide glue isn't waterproof. That's actually an advatage sometimes. You can take apart the chair, or whatever, and reglue it.
BTW, I mean the sort of hide glue wher you mix pellets with water in a little cooker and then apply with a brush hot.
Robert
That's the fellow - thanks for the link; very interesting.
This is now going definitely OT - my apologies ! My brother has an overhead router (big machine weighing several cwt) which he was able to track back through its manufacturers to being an ex wartime De Havilland machine. It uses a 50Hz mains induction motor to drive a
400Hz aircraft generator for a 400HZ induction spindle motor hence getting enough cutter speed for the wooden components.Rob
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