He currently has an outbuilding attached to the house at one end. It is long and narrow (6m long x 2.5m wide), and joins onto the house along one of the shorter sides, like this:
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is built using a mixture of bricks and stone, with a concrete base, and currently used for storing bikes, tools etc.
He would like to reduce it in size (shorten it), and convert the resized building into an office. He's been in touch with the planning dept, and they say he doesn't need PP for this (he has it in writing).
What I'd like from the learned panel is advice on the building control aspects. The first job will be to shorten the building, and rebuild the end wall in block, like this:
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got in touch with the BCO for the first time today, who was extremely unhelpful and told him to go away and get a builder.
So, my questions:
Given that the rest of the building stands on nothing more than compacted ground, what in the way of foundation will be required for this new wall?
As far as converting the shed into an office, the intention is to dry line it (with vapour barrier), and install a timber floor over the concrete on a dpm. Does that sound ok? Would it meet building regs requirements? Anything else to think about in that respect?
While I share your sentiment completely, he'd like the new work to comply with building regs, and would also like to have it signed off. Main reason is that they may sell in a few years time.
If "building control" don't want to know, and "building regulations" don't apply, then I don't know what he can do! Perhaps they'd put in writing, like the planning people, that they're not interested? I'd guess they'd rather choke, but you never know.
I don't think it's so much that they didn't want to know; they just didn't want to advise on the requirement for foundations/insulation/damp proofing for the building. Adds up to the same thing, but he will still need to get them in to inspect + sign off.
That sounds totally unlike any BCOs I've dealt with; whatever anyone says about them they are normally pretty happy to give advice like this, especially when someone is obviously wanting to make an effort to do things properly, like your friend. How big is the department? Is it worth him going back on another day and hoping to catch a different BCO?
I'm currently doing something a bit similar, converting outside accomodation into an internal kitchen. When I asked the BCO how he wanted it doing, he said he wouldn't expect it all to come up to modern standards as it wouldn't be practical to do so; plus the rest of the old property to which the new part joins isn't up to standard anyway (eg - it has zero insulation in the solid floor, so it would be a bit pointless in putting 6" of celotex in the new part, which is what the U-value calculation demanded. He allowed me to put 2" in. Similarly for walls and ceilings, which are drylined with 2" celotex behind them - they wouldn't pass the current rules.
So I'd say it's pretty important that he gets a BCO on side at this stage, because what they will allow on the day is very subjective. I mean, in theory your mate could be told to rip up the whole floor and re lay it with loads of insulation underneath, but given a bit of luck and a reasonable BCO, he won't!
PP may not be needed for the reduction in size, but might be needed for change of use from outbuilding to habitable accommodation. It might be worth checking the extent to which the written statement applies.
Charming.
I fear that this may be creating new habitable accommodation, in which case current building regs will apply in full, including foundations to current standards.
If, of course, it's merely a garden room with no access to the rest of the house internally, with no kitchen or bathroom facilities (a toilet and WHB woudln't count) then it wouldn't be habitable would it? There's no restriction on how luxurious a shed is...
But when he comes to sell, it will still be a luxuroius shed and not a habitable room.
It's a small department - I don't know it at all, but I'd be surprised if there are more than 2 BCOs there.
Yes, this is my concern, but it's difficult to know where to go when faced with such an unhelpful response. I suppose one option is to submit some plans and a written request?
Yes, maybe the tack he should take is to submit his building notice with details of what he intends to do (ie, not rip up the floor, not re-lay the foundations etc) and see what the BCO says when he's asked whether that's OK. Presumably he can't just say "No, inadequate" without telling your friend what he should do instead?!
Bummer of a situation though. In my case, I got a lot of help (in just a 5-min chat) in the BCO's office, before I'd actually submitted the building notice; and once I'd sprung the cash, the BCO came round to the site and told me quite a lot more, before I'd even started work.
I wanted to rebuild the end section of a group of outbuildings, and the BCO told me that, as the whole building would be over 30 square metres, regs would apply. If the new/rebuilt bit was physically separate from the old, then regs would not apply, provided the new bit was less than
30m^2 and more than 1m from the property boundary. "How far apart do the old and new have to be?" "There isn't a minimum, just structurally separate". So, at the moment, the old rear wall is still in place, but apart from that there's a couple of feet of gap. If anyone complains, I'll put a slot in the back wall with a Stihl saw.
Could the OP's friend consider separating the office from the main building?
I'd suggest caution first on the planning front: it sounds like a change of use from domestic or garden storage to office use, which normally bothers the planning people especially if 'office' means running abusiness from it. A near neighbour of my sister's who started up a business using a similar outbuilding for office and a garage for a workshop has just had been closed down after appealing against PP refusal for change of use.
However if by 'office' you just mean a home study then why not call it a 'summer house'? Up to certain sizes + some other conditions, there's useful exemptions for that sort of building.
Suggest for starters searching the web, for instance my first hit
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stated:
+++ You won't need planning permission for separate buildings such as sheds, greenhouses, homes for pets, summer houses, swimming pools, ponds, and even sauna cabins don't need permission, unless: they will be nearer to any public access than the nearest part of the original house (unless there's at least 20m between the new building and the access) more than half the area of land around the original house will be covered by extensions or other buildings the new building is more than 3m high or more than 4m high if it has a ridged roof
+++++++
ISTR when I checked out a few months back there were several other conditions including some relating to Conservation Areas, so do a wider search to make sure.
Second on the Building regs front, my interpretation of the BCO reaction is not that the regs don't apply, but that he'd prefer you to engage a builder who will deal with the regs side & be the least bother to him.
OTOH for 'summer house' type structures the B regs possibly don't apply, I think you will find a similar list of exemptions as for planning if you do a web search.. B regs approval isn't needed for the Alton Summerhouse I was considering.
One way around an unhelpful LA depts is to get a few addresses from estate agents in a different LA, choose a few which are similar, and ring up saying you're trying to get a tentative idea of what might be possible before making an offer.
On both sides BC & PP you need to be careful that your alterations don't bring the finished structure within either system.
Even if you don't need B regs approval, would urge caution on the insulation front. Solid walled structures can be B. COLD even if they are dry-lined with insulation.
The extension of a building by the addition at ground level of: a) a conservatory, porch, covered yard or covered way; or b) a carport open on at least two sides; where the floor area does not exceed 30 square metres, provided that in the case of a conservatory or porch which is wholly or partly glazed, the glazing satisfies the requirement of Building Regulation Part N Safety Glazing. An exempt conservatory must be separated from the remainder of the house by a wall, door or window. A detached single storey building, having a floor area which does not exceed 30 square metres, which contains no sleeping accommodation and is a building: a) at no point of which is less than one metre from the boundary of its curtilage; or b) which is constructed substantially of non-combustible material. These exemptions cover: .........Detached summer house having less than 30 square metres in floor area, and containing no sleeping accommodation and constructed of non-combustible materials.
++++++++
sounds like 'conservatory' is another good word to have handy :-))
In normal construction a solid brick or block wall makes a good thermal store & in my limited experience that is where insulated plaster or wallboard rooms fall down. Theoretically they might be much better thermally but in terms of comfort, you shiver as soon as the heat is turned off. I sometimes come across garages converted (presumably with B Regs apporval) into extra rooms like this. Better than nowt, but....
The message from "jim_in_sussex" contains these words:
When the nice woman from the planning department came to eye up where our conservatory was going she said "This is an extension really, isn't it?" "Ah, well, sort of" "Oh, don't worry, it's OK, provided you jump through all the conservatory hoops we don't mind".
Mmm. Well teh BCO cannot make you change existing to meet specs, only ensure new is to specs.
Nevertheless for sanities sake..
First of all the foundations. Totally solid type and quality dependent, but going down 600mm and putting in a concrete strip is a starting point. Ring your BCO up and say 'will 600mm strip concrete meet the current requirements for a single story building in my area' if he says
800, do 800 and show them to him before filling. Its half a day with a mini digger thats all .
Damp comes next. Personally if its small and non DPC'ed already i'd knock the bugger down and start over..easier than damp proofing a non DPC'ed building but injection might well work in this case.
For the fllor, I'd level what you have, and put down a DPC, some polystyrene insulation (or celotex) and screed over. Raised wood is fine, but you have to vent underneath, and that destroys a lot of the insulative properties of the airspace. and will need UF vents. If you go that route use celotex between the joists and then chip-over.
You can run te flooring on a DPC on top of pilings, if you go thise route. Don't let the joists or flooring touch the outer walls - use expanding foam to wedge them in place, and fill teh gaps. This stops moisture eating the timber, and the draughts..
If the walls are non DPC lime with a breathable membrane, then stud inside inuslate and lay cables and plasterboard or MDF sheet over the top
Use DG windows.
hat SHOULD just about cover teh main points - damp, foundations and insulation.
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