Lime mortar pointing

This is repairs to a Scots farm cottage some 200 years old which might well have been re-pointed sometime in the last century using beach sand !!

I hadn't spotted until recently that the CI down pipe at the rear of the ho use had split and was running water onto the wall. Split because the old s oak away and clay agricultural pipes were solid with mud! There's now a tr ench and big hole in the garden (thank goodness for neighbours who have a m inidigger !) to address the drainage.

The pointing will need to be re-done in a small area and my understanding w ith random rubble stone is that it should be lime based.

Can someone give any guidance on this please.

Thanks Rob

Reply to
robgraham
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ll have been re-pointed sometime in the last century using beach sand !!

house had split and was running water onto the wall. Split because the old soak away and clay agricultural pipes were solid with mud! There's now a trench and big hole in the garden (thank goodness for neighbours who have a minidigger !) to address the drainage.

with random rubble stone is that it should be lime based.

Quite so. 3:1 sand to builder's lime, just mix and use. The main difference s with cement mixes are: it takes ages to set/harden, you can mix a batch then continue using it nex t day it can accomodate slight wall movement without causing significant damage when it eventually fails it doesnt pull the surface off the stone like ceme nt tends to Speed of work is limited by its considerable slowness to harden - doesnt so und like this will be a problem in your situation, if its only a narrow str ip behind the pipe.

If you want it to look right, use the same sand colour and type as is alrea dy there. Red, yellow or white, soft, sharp or a mix. Occasionally you also get inclusions like shells or black specks. FWIW I dont think theres a big problem with beach sand, its much like the sea dredged sand builders & DIY ers widely use.

Cement & lime mixes behave like cement, and are not recommended. If you wan t to read more on why lime should be used, SPAB have info on it. Periodprop ertyforum also discusses it a fair bit, or did last time I was there.

NT

Reply to
meow2222

Talking to a guy the other day who was re-pointing a Victorian house in sand/cement mortar after the front wall had been pressure washed rather than sandblasted. Have to say the end result looked pretty damned good.

He said they use lime mortar a lot these days, and cover it with a breathable membrane (landscape fabric?) for several weeks. Needless to say, this is mostly on listed buildings, so I guess it must cost a lot more

Reply to
stuart noble

The snag with doing this - if the joints have been raked out first - is that any movement will result in cracked bricks etc. And most Victorian houses do move somewhat.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

This is the only point I would disagree with. If you use lime putty, and put the remaining mortar in one of the (air-tight) lime putty buckets, then you can continue using it next *year*.

Speed is not an issue for pointing at all. It might be for building a wall.

+1. It may actually need to be darker than previous sand (to allow for dirt on the existing pointing / brick
Reply to
Martin Bonner

Water pressure was enough to blow all the old mortar (well, just sand really) away, no need for raking. IME the movement issue has been overstated. My house should have fallen down by now if the purists were right

Reply to
stuart noble

Oh it won't fall down. Just possibly unsightly cracks. Of course it does depend on how strong the mortar mix used for pointing is.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Many thanks guys for your advice. The colour/texture of the sand and a source of builder's lime now needs to be sorted out locally.

Rob

Reply to
robgraham

/ Oh it won't fall down. Just possibly unsightly cracks. Of course it does depend on how strong the mortar mix used for pointing is./q

And how much there is (depth) in the joints.

Jim K

Reply to
JimK

There is a LIME FAQ on UK SelfBuild site

but as stated a 3:1 mix with builders lime would suffice for re-pointing ... make sure you have a few dry days due as initial set time is considerable.

Reply to
Rick Hughes

Masons Mortar, Salamander St, Edinburgh

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Reply to
Adam Aglionby

The last time I was buying lime putty, I found the following sites that would deliver:

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(but I am in Cambridge, not out in the sticks in the Scottish Highlands).

Beware delivery charges - the reason I had that list of URLs was the spreadsheet working out the price/kg for approx 20kg lime putty delivered *including delivery*.

Reply to
Martin Bonner

[Snip]

I nearly got caught on eBay the other day. Item £2 - delivery £66!

Reply to
charles

So you need a crystal ball too? :-) Actually it seems they now cover with a breathable membrane rather than the sacking the Victorians used

Reply to
stuart noble

Thanks Adam and Charles

Not all old Scottish cottages are in the Highlands !! _I'm just 10 miles west of Edinburgh centre so Adam, that's a great link. Charles your list may not help me but I'm sure it will be of use to others - thanks to you both.

Coincidentally I only discovered recently that the largest lime pit at the time in Scotland was less than a mile away from me - it explains why the A71 takes a clear diversion at that point. Rob Rob

Reply to
robgraham

lime & white cement look much the same

Lime and cement mortars are both very cheap, cement fractionally cheaper. The reason builders switched to OPC was the elimination of delays in building due to its quick setting.

Covering is only needed when frost threatens.

NT

Reply to
meow2222

Its frequently overlooked, and houses damaged as a result. Look round any Vic housing area and you'll find the damage cement does to soft brick. The long delay between application and damage means a lot of people arent aware of the connection.

NT

Reply to
meow2222

I dont understand why some folk pay high prices for ready mixed putty. A bag of builders lime and water is fine for pointing.

NT

Reply to
meow2222

Not normally an issue when pointing, but I have repointed brickwork where the mortar had fallen out all the way through, so the support of set mortar before raking more out did matter.

NT

Reply to
meow2222

Yes if youre too dense to check the weather forecast. Lime takes a few days to set.

Reply to
meow2222

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