kitchen wiring

Ever heard of a condom?

That provides protection at the load end.

Is there a reason you use one with a neon? I ask because I've never seen the benefit of neon indicators and I wonder if I am missing something?

Neons are useful if you cannot tell whether the load has power, so if you are switching something remotely, I can see neons could be useful; with the caveat that the neon shows power is going to the switch and not necessarily to the load. But if switching a dishwasher or washing machine, can't you tell from the machine whether it is powered or not?

Thanks.

If they're integrated ones, you'd have to open the cupboard door to tell.

WTF are you talking about?

I guess if someone plugs in two 13 A kettles on the spurred double, that isn't enough of an overload to cause damage?

^^spur^^

A short term overload. That is not problem, unless you watch the kettles boil in which case it will be a sustained overload:-)

So you sit and watch the dishwasher running with your finger on the isolation switch just in case it catches fire?

Do you sit and watch the TV with a finger poised above an isolation switch just in case the TV catches fire?

You will actually find that no double 13A socket plate is actually rated to

MK did a test of one of their own products a long while back and concluded that 20A was about as high as it could go.

"All MK socket-outlets are manufactured to comply with BS1363 part 2: 1995 and are rated at 13A per unit. Double socket-outlets have been manufactured and tested to exceed this rating by margin that allows electrical safety and reduces the risk of heat and mechanical damage to components due to overloading. It should be noted that BS1363 part 2: 1995 does not allow double sockets to operate at twice the permissible maximum loading and it should be remembered that double socket-outlets are not manufactured to be able to withstand a 26A load for sustained periods of time.

Research by ourselves and third party organisations has shown that all MK double sockets can safely withstand a continuous load of 19.5A for an indefinite period. Increasing the load slightly will begin to cause heat and mechanical stresses on the components in a relatively short period. Testing showed that a load of 22.3A was sufficient to cause heat stress that would cause a browning of the faceplates and sufficient heat to cause insulation damage to cable cores. A load of 24A for 43 hours was sufficient to cause significant heat damage to the material in which the socket-outlet was situated and within 75 hours sufficient to cause significant damage that would lead to the very real potential of fire.

MK recommend that users of their sockets consult professional design Engineers when designing installations to avoid the possibility of heat and mechanical stress to components and installations caused by overloading of MK socket-outlets. "

Of course, your kettle is only drawing power for a short time. If you plugged 2 3kW room heaters in OTOH, you would be in trouble...

Just so you can tell at a glance (the ones on the GET range of accessories are quite small and discrete)

In some cases appliances are hidden in "kitchen unit door" faced enclosures...

The neon only lights when the switch is on.

Of course this is where the ring circuit works so well in practice. By judging what won't actually happen. The chances of a room being large enough to need two 3 kW heaters on for a long period - and it also only having the one double socket - remote.

Of course those who dislike rings can always invent plenty of 'what ifs' ;-)

I remeber in my youth where I worked we had two electric stills in a lab (distilling water!) They both had a pair of 3Kw heaters fed by 13a plugs. Each still was plugged into a double socket, which needed regiular replacement after a few months. The ring fuse needed frequent replacement as there also were 3kw ovens on the same circuits.

The biggest problem for me was that the two 'rings' were on seperate (sub) circuits with seperate origins far away in the basement at least 100 yards away. (one being a 1950s addition to an originally 1930s installation, the other really was an original radial with changed outlets).

There were other bits on these two circuits before their origin in the basement, in rubber covered and lead sheathed cables of great antiquity, resulting in high loop impedance great earth leakage and no cross bonding.

Until I did an unofficial bond between our fridge and oven (official lekky due to lack of budget denied there was a problem) there was enough volts between earths to light a lamp bulb dimly at times and gave a distinct tingle if you leaned on the oven whilst retreiving one's milk.

Well before current risk assessments but we never killed any of our students.

...

That's another reason I'm glad I have the kettle & toaster in different corners of the kitchen. :-)

A Belfast sink propped up?

Well, yes. This is why you don't use rings and domestic regs in such places. They are for houses, not offices, labs, factories, etc.

I don't have anything that posh ;) All of mine are freestanding.

Yes, the point I was trying to make is the neon tells you that the switch is on, not that the appliance is drawing power. If the appliance did not work, you would still need to plug something into the socket to check that it had a voltage across it.

Thanks for the explanation.

Well same here (unless you include a fridge), but some folks like to play the "hunt the appliance" game ;-)

I can't think of an obvious reason why the socket would not be working - if the light is on, since there is no fuse, then the socket must be live.

Those would be an acceptable load on a double socket in a house. They're only in use for a short period.