what's the procedure/technique for measuring & cutting handrail joints for stairs at internal corners that are "on slope"/ inclined? i.e. one plane is 90deg so easy 45 deg each but how to measure/describe a change in angle as well?
Jim K
Most handrails I have seen where the direction changes such as on a landing , the sloping handrail is brought level first then turned through the 90deg . The sloping part and the first level section will form an angle of 135deg . requiring the ends to be cut at 67.5deg.
Richard
ng, the sloping handrail is brought level first then turned through the 90d eg. The sloping part and the first level section will form an angle of 135d eg. requiring the ends to be cut at 67.5deg.
mmm but not this one! :>) it;s a winder staircase on a corner - no horizont al runs just "less steep" 90deg corner, then "more steep"...
Jim K
The horizontal parts can be quite short one stair tread only, used such a stair in a restaurant only today and that's the arrangement used at the point where the stairs turned at 45deg.
Richard
OK but in this application the stair strings are never horizontal and at the 90degree turn I don't want to start introducing horizontals..?!. in any case the problem remains how do you measure the change around a corner in 2 planes?
Jim K
Sorry Jim my knowledge of geometry is not that good and the solution offere d is the only straightforward way of doing it that I can see. I have seen banisters where a complicated curved section has been inserted at the point where the the two sloping sections meet at 90deg.
Richard
red is the only straightforward way of doing it that I can see. I have see n banisters where a complicated curved section has been inserted at the poi nt where the the two sloping sections meet at 90deg.
/q
no probs. It's a "compound mitre" cut/joint but just wondering how best to approach & measure/cut it
Cheers Jim K
When I did mine, I drew it out using trigenometry. You want them parallel with the stringer (45 degrees would be a quite a steep staircase). If you have winders, the stringer will change angle, and it's more complicated.
I also took time to look at similar handrails. You tend to find the sloping handrail enters the post at a lower height than the landing handrail.
I cut mortice and tenon joints, but I don't think that's done commercially anymore - there are kits to make that joint easier if you are not into traditional woodwork, and an angled mortice and tenon joint is not quite a starter project. (I practiced the mortice part on an offcut first.)
mm the 45deg is 1/2 the 90 deg corner, plan view...
mmm no landing...
just a straight "cut" angle calculation explanation would be enough! ;>)
Jim K
Andrew
I think Jim is looking to make two handrails meet without a newel post, with the two hand rails fixed to a wall rather than a bannister. Correct me if I am wrong Jim.
Richard
r stairs at internal corners that are "on slope"/ inclined? i.e. one plane is 90deg so easy 45 deg each but how to measure/describe a change in angle as well?
When I've needed to do this, I've tried pre-calculation - but found that th e actual angle to get a tight shut-line may vary. Cutting test pieces in sc rap timber has worked better.
Measure what you think is the correct angle, cut the half-angle on each scr ap piece, then trim one of them by degrees (literally a degree or two) to g et a tight fit. Measure each angle (as the two pieces are likely different) and recalculate the correct half-angles.
Even then I've found that over the length of a handrail, the full-length ti mber will sit slightly differently and may require a final trim to get a ti ght joint.
If your handrail is other than a rectangular cross-section, you may have th e extra complexity of having to "let-in" or house one profile into the othe r.
I found it easiest to start at the bottom of the stairs, get the joint at t he upper end of the first piece of handrail 'nearly right', fix the first p iece in place - then I was able to repeatedly trim and test the second piec e (being able to rest it in place loosely on the first timber). That means that you're not using the perfect half-angle - but a bit of planing and san ding in-situ to produce a pleasing overall profile helps a lot.
In message , Jim K writes
I haven't quite got my brain round the problem:-)
Is this something you could set up in rough and measure actual angles with a sliding bevel?
The procedure is to make a template using a bit of scrap wood/extra rail. (However clever you are it will be wrong.) Measure and mark as best you can. You can then mess around adjusting the angle on the template with the belt sander until it's right.
Then you use the template to mark up the real thing (making sure you have some spare length at the other end of the rail. Always cut the tricky joints first, leaving the plain ends to cut off last) That way you have spare length for adjustment
BTW. To transfer "angles" from template to rail, tape a piece of paper on to the template (wrapped round it) Put a mark on paper crossing joint where it overlaps so that it can be put in exactly the same position after moving. Cut off paper to match end of template. Remove and transfer onto handrail. Mark off and cut. Slight adjustments with belt sander will be needed very likely.
But remember, if you have a 3D joint, the two pieces will not mate up exactly due to the inherent misalignemnt. If you look at a proper job, it is a 3D carved/curved lump of wood to join up the bits.
spot on! NB I've done it but was wondering how I should have done it...
Jim K
see Tricky Dicky's interpretation above...
you can measure in one plane with a sliding bevel yes... but the "junction" is in 2 planes...
Jim K
Maybe a profile gauge would be useful?
Fairly certain it is called a 'wreathed' handrail. The curved join is made as a separate piece. I doubt it matters how you calculated it as long as the end result looks right.
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