FTTP on demand

[Theo]

Out of curiousity I asked for a quote from Cerberus for an on-demand FTTP install to replace FTTC. The cabinet is about 400m away (relatively direct by road, some open space in between):

<quote>

Thank you for requesting an estimate of the installation costs for FTTP on Demand at XXXX.

We have now received the estimate of the charges from BT. These are detailed below.

Estimated Build Cost: £9,900.00

The build charge includes the estimate for the work and materials required to deliver the service. It also includes the connection charge.

Number of premises passed for FTTP: 10

Please note that, where provided, this is an estimated price based on network records. Openreach are not always able to provide an estimate in this way and a full survey may be required. Installation charges are only confirmed by a full survey once you place an order for the service.

The distance to the aggregation node will have an effect on the installation price. The build estimate includes a reduction for the number of premises passed (the premises currently served by the same copper distribution point as you) as these would be able to obtain FTTP as a consequence of your build.

Customers at these premises and other neighbouring premises may submit a linked FTTPoD order to share the construction costs. If you wish to consider starting a Linked Order, you can find information on how to do so in the guide attached.

To proceed with an order, you must pay the £250.00 ex VAT survey charge. The survey charge is non-refundable in the event of cancellation and will apply to all orders.

The survey has a lead time of at least 4 weeks. After the survey, you will have 28 days to accept or reject the confirmed build charge. </quote>

I don't think I'll be taking out their generous offer anytime soon...

Theo

[Michael Chare]

The distance to the cabinet is not relevant for FTTP.

[Andy Burns]

The distance determines the amount of "construction" required, which drives the price, so I'd say it's relevant.

[The Natural Philosopher]

? what?

FTTP does not use the cabinets at all. It goes 10-15 miles back to the regional exchange

[Andy Burns]

It'll only go to the nearest underground splice box ...

[The Natural Philosopher]

well, in a sense, yes. But it is orthogonal to the distance to the cabinets.

The cabinets are completely redundant for FTTP..

[Michael Chare]

As it says in the OP "The distance to the aggregation node will have an effect on the installation price."

[Martin Brown]

Not round here it doesn't. If it goes anywhere at all (which I doubt) it goes back to my local exchange. They have been fibreing ducts for the last month and destroying live copper ADSL circuits in the process.

I reckon it is a scam to harvest some tick box grant or other. No attempt has been made to sell this new "FTTP" service to me.

I suspect even if real FTTP will be prohibitive for the people who live more than 500m from the "kerb". We don't have many of them either.

One farmer who lives opposite an FTTC cabinet was quoted £9k because his EO line is on the wrong side of the road. Getting access for him to the new FTTC box requires a road closure and poles or tunnelling.

OR's pricing model is pretty much think of a number and double it!

[Java Jive]

You've come out with this bigoted idiocy before, and it was blown out of the water then. Learn to base your opinions on *FACTS* instead of bigotry.

I suspect it's more a policy of "Get as much as you can from any sucker who will pay a high price now, until we are forced to do it by HMG at a more reasonable price!" Certainly it looked like that from their quote for our community.

[Tweed]

Is that entirely correct? I vaguely remember reading somewhere a while ago that FTTC cabinets were used as endpoints for the few people that wanted fibre on demand. The logic being that there?s a fibre to the cabinet from the exchange to provide the service to on demand tail.

[Theo]

I have FTTC, so the cabinet has fibre. That's not to say it's the nearest aggregation node, but fibre can't be more than 400m away. And there is obviously a duct between me and the cabinet because that's how my copper comes. I'm assuming they would splice me onto the fibre bundle that serves the FTTC cabinet, there being no other telecoms presence in the village.

So it's a lower bound on the distance, although it's possible the duct between me and the cabinet serves a circuitous route.

'Passes 10 properties' sounds like it's just the houses in my immediate vicinty, and not the other ones further along the 400m (there are perhaps

40).

Theo

[Andy Burns]

If you were to take-up the offer, would it subsidise cheap(er) FTTPoD for those

10 properties I wonder?

[Theo]

Yes it would. I think that's partly priced into the quote, but also if I got my neighbours together to do an install all together it would make it cheaper for everyone, plus there's a gigabit broadband voucher we could then each claim (£1500 each I think).

However given we've got FTTC I don't see everyone in an immediate rush to sign up. If we were on ADSL it might be more attractive. Or if the cost was more like £2k before voucher rather than £9k.

Theo

[Fredxx]

You can see better than most. I don't see any idiocy or bigotry.

So you believe it's a scam in all but name too. Does that also make you an idiot bigot?

[Java Jive]

Go back and look at the thread where he first made this irrational claim, and how it was roundly debunked.

No it's based on the way I've seen BT work with business customers.

[Brian Gaff (Sofa]

If you don't want to do something simply price it out of the park so to speak. Brian

[Adrian Caspersz]

And then when someone from the competition steps in to provide, back peddle as quick as possible!!

[The Natural Philosopher]

No.

They dont seem to do that.

They are laying what amounts to a whole new network.

Cabinets are endpoints for fibre, not splice points

Cabinets have mains power and contain DSLAMS.

None of this is needed for FTTP.

Openreach will in the end save money and decommission all the cabinets as people are moved over to fibre only.

My fibre was laid in a completely new duct that had nothing to do with the copper ducts

[The Natural Philosopher]

Well I can find plenty of documentation that clearly show that the FTTP fibre goes from the main exchange to various underground splice points and then to the customer without needing or using FTTC cabinets.

It may be that that is in fact how they are offering Fod in an FTTC area but it sure ain't the FTTP model.

My nearest cabinet for example is a mile and a half away in a housing estate where it serves about 200 houses. But my route to the exchange bypasses it by at least 500 yards, and so that cabinet is on a spur.

Not only that, but the OR engineer assured be that the fibres do not go to the exchange, either, they go to a regional exchange about 12 miles away.

I think what has happened is that fibre technology is now so good that not only the cabinets, but also the local exchanges are now redundant.

My *impression* is that while if a duct is good enough, and going in the right direction, OR are using them, in many cases completely new ducts are being laid to take the fibre. I cycled around when they were laying fibre and loads of new manhole covers, diggers, new plastic duct, and so on.

When I queried this they said the old ducts were 'too full, and too fragile' to have new stuff pulled through them..

So again, my impressions is that FTTP is an entirely new 21st century network that will supersede the copper, DSL, FTTC local exchange model altogether.

If it can use existing ducts, it will, but it will not go out of its way to do so.

Whether or not when they replace FTTC with FTTP they will use the cabinets as splice points, I cannot say.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I think the title of this thread is confusing . FTTP is not Fibre Oon Demand, They are totally different products and technologies

Which are we actually talking about?