fitting a second mortice lock

[David Kerr]

Hi all,

I want to improve security on an exterior access door to my garage. At present it has a 3-lever mortice sashlock, which I intend to replace with a good quality five-lever job.

Rather then leave the old 3-lever lock to gather dust, I was considering re-siting it either nearer the top or the bottom of the door, thus giving improved resistance to crowbars, etc (the door has three sturdy hinges and opens outwards into the back garden).

I would remove the handle/latch mechanism and use it only as a deadlock. Question is, where to put it? Is it better to site it near to the top of the door or the bottom? The present lock is near the centre, of course. I'll obviously have to avoid the top/bottom rails so I don't weaken the door structure.

BTW, the door has a glass window in its upper half and a wooden recessed panel in its lower half.

TIA,

David

[Set Square]

A villain can probably exert more force with a crowbar low down than high up - so it may be better to put it at the bottom.

Having said that, I wonder whether there's any real point in fitting it at all, based on the fact that anyone who really wants to get in would probably opt for breaking the glass or smashing out the lower plywood panel.

[Colin]

I suspect that a villain will simply kick the door in and so fixing it lower may help.

Are you fitting a 5 lever because of insurance requirements? I recently spoke to our local bobby and she said that she had never heard of anyone picking a door lock. A 3-lever would then be as good as a 5 lever... or am I missing something?

Colin

[Christian McArdle]

More importantly with an outward opening door, you must install hinge bolts. Otherwise, the door is easily removed at the hinges.

Christian.

[Lurch]

On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 13:16:30 +0100, "David Kerr" strung together this:

I wouldn't bother, if anyone wants to get in through that door it'll be laying on the floor in seconds no matter how many locks you've got on it, or more likely just have a big hole in it with no attempt made at crawbarring it open. To prevent ease of crowbaring I'd fit some metal plating to the outer of the door so that you can't get a crowbar in the gap between the door and frame, and also a strip of something on the frame to reinforce it so that if it were to be crowbarred it wouldn't just split and fall open.

[RichardS]

Kind of academic though. If your insurance co says "all locks must be 5 lever or better" then it's a hell of a lot easier, cheaper and less hassle fitting 5 lever locks than trying to argue the toss with a loss adjuster should the need arise...

-- Richard Sampson

email me at richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

[David Kerr]

Yes, I had thought that the hinges were vulnerable to having the pins knocked out. What exactly are hinge bolts? How are they fitted?

[David Kerr]

Yes, insurance requirement and advice from our local crime prevention guy.

[David Kerr]

Yes, I had thought I might fit some metal grills or bars on the inside of the door to prevent this.

[Ron Ireland]

A three lever has about 100 differs, I have all the Union keys on a very large ring so a 3 lever union lock wouldn't deter me for long if I was that way inclined. A five lever on the other hand has thousands of differs so it's impractical to carry a bunch of keys with you. A five lever also has other security features a three lever doesn't.

[Christian McArdle]

The frame is rebated for sockets. The door has fixed bolts attached. When the door shuts, the bolts go into the socket. You can now remove the hinges and the bolts will hold the door to the frame. They are also worth fitting to inward opening doors to provide extra kick resistance, but for outward opening doors, they're essential.

[David Kerr]

Thanks very much for this.

Got a pair and fitted over the weekend, plus 5-lever lock. Am going to fit bars over the window glass and lower panel.

Apparently hinge bolts are now fitted as "standard practice" on external doors opening outwards.

David

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Unless the 5 lever is mechanically stronger, I'd say it's just jobs for the boys. As was said, most doors are forced - if there's not an easier entry. Picking locks is strictly for Frost.

I also wonder what the insurance company would make of no signs of forced entry - as would be the case with a picked lock?

[Donald]

Does the door open from your house directly into your garage. If so you need a fire resistent door etc. Check with your local building control

Usual practise for two locks is have at 1/3 and 2/3 height. To prevent the lock being jemmied rebate a metal "T" section to door edge (top to bottom) and fit hinge bolts. However, I would have to say that the door itself would have to be up to the job (44mm thick and solid constuction) - outward opening doors have their weak points but covered by above. Kicking in the door is a lot harder! Depends what you are protecting and what it is worth to you. Peace of mind perhaps?

See above for "fire door" and solid construction.

[adder]

Perhaps more importantly, how is the main garage door secured?

[David Kerr]

Thanks for this.

I will definitley go for the T section down the door edge. My tool collection of 20+ years is inside and I don't want to lose it!

David

[David Kerr]

I'm reasonably happy with this - metal up-an-over but I have chained and padlocked the frame to the internal brick walls on both sides.

Also fitted a vibration sensor alarm - they'd have to make one hell of a racket to force it open.

David