Electricity pricing?

[Richard]

Is it just me or has the whole pricing structure of electricity gone mad?, all these private companies are offering a deal with 2 rates, so much for your first 500 or so units and so much for the units there after that. Its done for one purpose and one purpose only and thats to confuse. Its time OFFWATT stepped in and made these comanies, price clearly, you should not have to design a spreadsheet to be able to compare prices directly.

If i use the website "uswitch" and put Npower as my provider Scotish power with show up as being able to save mw =A3400 a year, Likewise if i put scottish power down as my provider and insert the same fugures npower claims to be able to save me =A3400 per year.

Somebodies lying.

ps does anybody know who is the cheapest for economy 7?

[dom]

Tarriffs seem to get cheaper after the first x units. I think it should be the other way round, getting progressively more expensive for the heavy non-green user.

[Bob Eager]

No doubt the humourless Hansen and 'sarah' would agree with you. But this tariff structure does benefit low users anyway.

[Bob Eager]

Not at all. It's merely a concealed 'standing charge'. Works out the same as a standing charge plus a flat rate for units. Low users benefit since they don't pay as much 'standing charge' if they use less than the threshold.

You shouldn't have to anyway. It's hardly rocket science.

Some companies (well, at least one) offer flat rate units and no standing charge.

[The Wanderer]

Oh, I just love these types of comments. Plenty of people who were in the industry in the late 1980s/early 1990s could see all these sorts of problems on the horizon, but good ole Cecil Parkinson had everybody dazzled with the prospect of share ownership and just how much better it would be when the industry was opened up to competition.

Well, when it was introduced pre-privatisation it was supposed to be one price across the country for E7 night units.

Sorry, doesn't help you, but I feel better having had my little moan......

[Dawda Jawarah]

Depends on what you need E7 for. If it's for heating, there are many electric heating systems out there that would probably save you more money even on peak tariff than E7. And they are cheap too.

Dawda Jawarah

[DMac]

If you work out the extra cost of the first 500 units you will find it comes very close to the old standing charge.

I had this a while back when my provider claimed to abolish the standing charge and use a two-teir system When customer services queried why I was moving I said cos my new co had no standing charge

"But sir neither do we"

He wasn't having any of this so I asked him to get out a calculator and do the maths

He then went very quiet

[manatbandq]

Please explain.

Since electric heating is 100% efficient at the point of use (all the electricity is converted to heat), how does one type of electric heating system save you money over another, for a given heat output?

MBQ

[Julian]

I had a similar thing with the muppet at the call centre proudly boasting that the standing charge had been abolished. 'So why do you now charge a king's ransom for the first 500 units?' Said I. The answer could have been formulated by one of our lying politicians!

It a con really IMO, If you have an electric cooker etc you can't possibly fail to notch up 500 units - even with the best care in the world. The only answer is to revert to gas lighting, heating, fridges and cooking and save the 'leaky for things like the PC

Julian.

[Julian]

Should read 'lekky!

[normanwisdom]

So what does everybody actually pay then, thats what I want to know? Just been looking at my bill and it's =A30.1205 up to 900 units p.a. and =A30.0522 thereafter. It's 3 phase and I think is a business rate with EDF.

cheers Jacob

[David Hansen]

On 4 Dec 2006 06:16:57 -0800 someone who may be "Richard" wrote this:-

As others have said, it was done in order for them to claim that they had abolished the standing charge. This was announced with a fanfare some years ago.

However, not all companies hide the standing charge. Also not all companies have a (hidden or visible) standing charge. A company with no standing charge (hidden or visible) is Ebico, though there may well be others.

That would no doubt be called "anti-competitive".

Probably Uswitch.

That depends on the number of units you use. However, I would look at Ebico, provided you are happy with their particular view of their mission (which is explained on their web site).

[Tony Bryer]

All the electricity is converted to heat, but it may not be useful heat

- e.g. a storage heater making the living room warmer than necessary overnight or pushing out heat during a mild spring or autumn day.

[John Rumm]

A heat pump will capture more energy than it consumes. The energy it consumes it will also convert into heat to be dissapated into the building. So the nett result is the apparent efficency exceeds 100% (if you ignore the outside getting that bit colder as a result).

Run a 1kW unit and it may dump over 3kW of heat into a room.

[Ian Stirling]

Though you probably want it to go into a high capacity heat store of some form, rather than into the room, unless you've got a high heat ccapacity externally insulated room.

[<me9]

Heatpump (aircon in reverse) could give up to about 400% 'efficiency'.

[Doctor Drivel]

If i use the website "uswitch" and put Npower as my provider Scotish power with show up as being able to save mw £400 a year, Likewise if i put scottish power down as my provider and insert the same fugures npower claims to be able to save me £400 per year.

Somebodies lying.

ps does anybody know who is the cheapest for economy 7?

[Tim Lamb]

In message , normanwisdom writes

General business electricity plan 1, 3ph. first 616 units at 9.25p and 7.79p thereafter. Standing charge £7.83. Powergen!

regards

[Bob Martin]

Just reading up on these at

aren't we all installing them ?

[Doctor Drivel]

In the UK gas is approx 3 to 4 times cheaper than electricity. And the condensing boilers are very small in physical size and highly efficient. So a heat pump that "averages" COP 3 would equal a natural gas boiler in running cost only when running at peak" performance. Few heat pumps average COP 3. Most of the time the average is probably COP 1.5. At the end of winter in many cases it can't raise temperatures to DHW levesl entailing COP

1 immersion backup. For a guide an immersion heater is COP 1. Natural gas condensing boilers are cheap (some 26kW version were available from B&Q for £300), heat pumps are not cheap at all.

A NG condensing boiler is much cheaper and guaranteed to give heat when needed, which the heat pump is not. Service for NG boilers is comprehensive, not so for heat pumps.

Heat pumps are fine for off the gas grid systems. Even then you have to do your arithmetic well to justify one. The capital cost of them is horrendous in the UK.

The best thing is to install cavity wall insulation, insulation around the slab perimiter underground (assuming a concrete slab) and over 1 foot in the loft. Triple glazed windows with low E glass and make the place as air tight as possible too. The install a gas condensing boiler and zone the heating system with separate temperature and time zones. That is far more cost effective than a heat pump....and cheaper to run with higher comfort levels.

For very cheap heat pumps, solar panel, and the rest: