Debris in tap water... help needed

[None]

We have an outside tap in the side passage that runs off the mains supply (we're not on a well), and when that is run, the pressure on the kitchen sink tap drops immensely, which would mean they are both running off the same feed.

If you pour yourself a glass of water from the kitchen tap during this time, it will be filled with brown particle debris. The same thing happens if you pour a glass of water from the kitchen tap while the shed washing machine is running. The bottom of the attic tank is covered in this debris. It appears to be iron bacteria, as it is slimy stuff, but that's just my best guess. When only the kitchen tap is running, or anything 'downstream' of it is running (other sinks/ showers), then the worst you'll see is a couple of specks of the stuff.

Would hugely appreciate some advice or even answers.......

[Toby]

Could there be a dead-leg of pipe somewhere, so if you just run the kitchen tap, the pressure drop is not sifficient to cause any crap to then drain from this dead-leg, but if several things are running at the same time, it is?

Toby...

[None]

I've thought about that, but I just don't know how to go about locating a dead leg.......

[neverwas]

May I just check that this means the kitchen tap is (as it shd be) fed direct from the supply pipe and not from the attic tank?

This is more a matter of elimination. Is it possible that the kitchen tap is siphoning from the attic tank when other taps are used? In other words, is the supply to the attic tank under water when the attic tank is full? (I assume there is a ball-c*ck there which may just possibly now be letting the level get too high.)

[None]

I have performed several checks to try and make sure the kitchen tap is fed from the mains, including turning off the stopcock on the road to see if the tap would run. It didn't so I have to presume it is mains fed.

The inlet to the attic tank is above the level of the water, though the ballcock is letting the level go higher than it should, though not that high.

[neverwas]

Another elimination question. Any toilet which is *not* fed from the attic tank? (Supplying WCs from a storage tank guards against siphonage from the cistern to the drinking tap. It is a point I keep in mind as we have no storage tank.)

[None]

No, we have two toilets, both of which are fed from the attic tank. I was talking to someone just now and they mentioned that if two taps from the mains are opened, we are probably reaching the maximum capacity of the pipe from the mains, which apparently will flush dirt out. I guess that's a solid explanation. It wouldn't surprise me if the dirt is from the mains as the water has always had a yellow hue to it, especially in summer. Most probably iron/iron bacteria due to sludge formations in toilet cistern for example.

[Dave Liquorice]

And draw it in if there is a leak somewhere...

Is your neighbours water the same?

[None]

My neighbours have been a bit vague about it, so I don't really know, they're quite old and don't seem to give two hoots either way. I've had a leak detection expert in, and he says he simply couldn't find anything. It does have the symptoms of a leak somewhere though, I know what you're saying.

[None]

Anyone got any other ideas?

[Phil L]

Get in touch with whoever it is you pay your water bill to - clean water and santitation is what you are paying for, it's their problem, not yours, and tell them that in the meantime between the phone call and it being rectified, you are buying bottled drinking water and sending them the bills.

[blackbat]

Is it possible to get to the mains pipe as it enters, or even before it enters the house? Or at least as early as possible in the run before it reaches any other taps.

If so you could turn off the supply in the street and plumb in another tap and see if the water was dirty there. Although it seems when the pressure is high there is no dirt. Maybe if you reduce the pressure using the street stopcock the water will becom dirty.

I guess this would prove that the water is dirty before it arrives at your house.

[None]

A glass filled up from the kitchen sink while another tap is running outside is literally filled with dirt, while the tap by itself is clear (apart from the odd tiny particle). I dunno, plumbing in another tap sounds like a lot of hassle and I've no time at the moment. Especially since its almost impossible that I would find anything to help me in this.

A couple of years ago, I got the water board to 'flush' out the mains in the road, and the water quality changed dramatically. It was crystal clear and clean, much more pleasant to drink, shower in, and so forth. This did not last unfortunately, a week later and it was back to its usual. After that, they refused to take any further action, despite me telling them how much of an improvement there had been. Since then I've thought that it really must be an issue on their side, perhaps compounded by a problem on mine. Hard to tell.

[blackbat]

Are the taps 'in series' if you know what I mean? If so, is the kitchen tap the first in the run?

[Jules]

Surely there are some sort of national minimum water quality standards that they have to adhere to, with large penalties for failing to comply? I'm amazed it can be as bad as you say and they refuse to at least come and take samples to ensure that it's not on their side of things.

Are the water company's offices anywhere that you can get to? Maybe waving a physical sample under their noses might get them to do something (sending water through the post might prove difficult :)

cheers

Jules

[Clot]

Hi None, sorry to hear of the continuing saga. It really does suggest that you are on some kind of balance point in the system; I'm afraid it's tackling the Water Dept. again.

Regards

Clot

[None]

Hi Clot... yeah the saga continues after I tried to ignore it for a lengthy period. It strikes me as very odd though that the water is generally sort of ok if just one tap is running. But I'm struggling to find out where a dead leg could be located, and we don't have any signs of a leak really.

@ blackbat: The tap in the side passage seems to be more or less level with the kitchen tap on the other side of the wall, hard to tell. The washing machine is several feet downstream of both.

@ Jules: The local council have tested the water twice and it came back fine apparently, so they wash their hands of me really. Sediment/ iron bacteria will only count as an aesthetic complaint, but it worries me that so much of it seems to come through when more than one mains source is being used.

[Clot]

A leak is irrelevant, I think. The deadleg issue could be relevant, but I thought was discounted in previous dialogue. When you have more than one tap running, you create a greater flow in the mains supplying the house and hence can disturb sediment.in the mains.

[None]

It would be a huge relief if the problem definitely resides outside my boundary to be honest, it would give me carte blanche to simply get on to the water people and make something happen that way. But why would hardly any particle debris be in the water when just one tap is on full whack? Why the big difference?

[Andrew Mawson]

pressure

bacteria, as

running

arrives

improvement

struggling to

Sediment/

Have you talked to the neighbours - do they have the issue?

Disconnect the supply at the first stop c*ck, and temporarily fit a tap there. Run off vast quantities of water. If clear the problem is on your piping, if not it's the water companies issue. If the problem lies in your piping, bite the bullet, rip out all the old pipe and re-plumb. Technically trivial though possibly physically challenging. If it's your piping it sounds like you have iron barrel in use, in which case it should be replaced anyway.

AWEM