I was looking at changing my 18 year old central heating boiler for a new more energency efficient condenser boiler.
I am not so keen having read the following BBC News article:
Graham
While I'm usually very much in agreement with the author's sentiments (it's much 'greener' to drive a 10 year old car than to buy a brand new, more efficient one), the sums don't add up when it comes to boilers.
Boilers convert a lot of energy in a year, yet don't cost a great deal of energy to manufacture and service. So, only a small increase in efficieny is required in order to make a big difference to the amount of fuel used to produce the same amount of energy.
That's not to say you should replace your boiler every two years with the latest, most efficient model. Just that when you come to replace your boiler at the end of its natural life, get the most efficient one you can, made by a reputable manufacturer.
Jeff Howell is a know-it-all jack-of-all-trades pillock, who has made a name for himself in crap newspaper prattling ill-informed garbage most of the time.
Let's see what the fools says....
"At its most basic, a boiler is simply a kettle. It is a cast iron vessel, with a burner underneath it. We've had boilers like this for 30, 40, 50 years. And in some cases those original 50 year old boilers are still working very well,"
"In order to get this extra alleged 15% of efficiency out of the new boilers, they become far more complicated. They are full of sensors, electronics, gauges and electronic ignition systems which makes them so complicated that they require a university engineering degree almost in order to maintain them."
Mr Howell is convinced these new boilers will fail quicker and use up more energy in their manufacture, maintenance and disposal, than might be saved during the boiler's working life. "New condensing boilers have to be maintained by a skilled engineer at least every six months. Every time the engineer comes, he drives his diesel van. He sits in the traffic trying to get to your house. These are all extra energy costs involved,"
Howell:
"At its most basic, a boiler is simply a kettle. It is a cast iron vessel, with a burner underneath it. We've had boilers like this for
30, 40, 50 years. And in some cases those original 50 year old boilers are still working very well," he says. "Boilers do not by any stretch of the imagination, all have cast iron heat exchangers. Relatively few introduced in the last few years use cast iron. For at least ten years, probably more, many have low water content heat exchangers made from metals ranging from aluminium to stainless steel. THese are more efficient for a number of reasons including less loss of heat through the flue.
A significant number of the older cast iron products went off the market a few years back when minimum efficiency standards were set to
78% seasonal efficiency. Having said that, quite a number of low water content products went at the time as well.When he says "working very well" that rather depends on definitions. The 30-50 year old products in cast iron are unlikely to be achieving more than around 50% seasonal efficiency. Low water content types of around 15 years ago can manage around 65%.
Howell:
"In order to get this extra alleged 15% of efficiency out of the new boilers, they become far more complicated. They are full of sensors, electronics, gauges and electronic ignition systems which makes them so complicated that they require a university engineering degree almost in order to maintain them."
Most boilers released on the market in the last 5-10 years have sensors and electronics to control them, be they condensing or not. In most designs the components are plug fit and easy to replace. There are certainly pups as designs, but that has always been the case. Electronic ignition systems have been in use since the mid
70s.Condensing boilers operate with a seasonal efficiency of 90% or so; so for Howell's 15% to hold, he would have to be comparing with the best of the non condensing designs which are, themselves, electronically controlled for the most part.
He can't have it both ways.
Two years ago, I replaced an old Glow Worm low wwater content boiler (65% seasonal efficient) with a condensing unit. THe saving in gas has been between 25 and 30%.
Howell:
"New condensing boilers have to be maintained by a skilled engineer at least every six months. Every time the engineer comes, he drives his diesel van. He sits in the traffic trying to get to your house. These are all extra energy costs involved," he says.
The maintenance interval recommended for every condensing boiler that I have seen is annual, certainly not every six months, so this argument falls apart immediately.
"Anything that has electronics in it is going to require more energy costs in dismantling and disposal of it. Printed circuit boards all contain toxic materials, for example, and you'd have to spend extra energy in separating out the cadmium and the cobalt and the other heavy metals."
This is a thin argument. Every increasing regulation on materials in electronic components is making disposal less and less of an issue.
Vaillant:
"If you were to ask any manufacturer, you would typically get the response that annual servicing of any gas appliance is a very good idea to ensure it's operating at peak efficiency and to ensure there are no issues developing during the course of the intervening year," says Vaillant's marketing director, John Collins.
This is correct and is what most manufacturers say. As a minimum, a flue gas analysis should be done for any boiler.
"Condensing boilers don't require any more maintenance than any other type of boiler. Typical servicing requirements are exactly the same for both. And the only difference really with a high-efficiency condensing boiler is it has a condensing drain."
This is also correct if the comparison is with modern non-condensing models.
"It's because it's cooling the products of combustion down to a much lower level, the water vapour contained in those products is condensed out in the boiler itself and so there is a small drain in the boiler to allow that condensate water to be piped away to a convenient drain in the house. Part of the service would be to ensure that drain was clear."
True - among other things.
"As a company we are very much geared to looking to the future and looking to rationalise the use of energy by every possible technology.
He's a marketing guy :-)
having said that, Vaillant are one of the better makes and have been producing condensing boilers for over 20 years.
It is true that early UK designs had problems, and this was because they were designed by adding a bolt on condensing heat exchanger to an old design. Poor design and inappropriate materials led to corrosion.
Modern designs deal with condensate correctly and do not have these issues.
You can change your old boiler to a new condensing one with confidence, but do make sure that you buy a good quality one.
In article , snipped-for-privacy@dircon.co.uk writes
Well sadly the BBC isn't the trustworthy organisation I once believed it was;(
Another brainwahsed Tory voter. Voting for them will do you no good.
Neither is the Torygraph (which never was a trustworthy organisation) which gives this Howell pillock shouting space.
From his website:
:-)
From his website:
some jobbing crank it appears, who passes himself off as an expert engineer on most things buildings.
In message , IMM writes
I presume you meant "Cue" there
Interesting. My brother had replaced a RS Vulcan with a cast iron exchanger - installed near 30 years ago - with a condenser, and reports
*cost* savings of just under 20%. In gas.Luckily, he has a BG service contract otherwise those savings would have been more than lost in repairs. It's a Potterton. ;-)
But they're quoting someone. And quoting an opposite view from a maker.
Or Q if you're a pro. ;-)
I have had an oil condensing boiler for 10 years and apart from the annual service has given me trouble free service. My house is a bungalow and my oil bills for the last 10 years have worked out at an average of £240 for full central heating and hot water. Blair
Maxie, no I meant Que.
They are checking the main points for validity to begin with. Duh!
What I think is *really* significant about the article is the slipped in note that 20% of UK fuel consumption is in our houses. Thus even if our boilers' efficiency is improved nationwide by, say, 20%, that will only save an absolute maximum of 4% on our overall energy consumption. (That may not be quite right, it depends a bit on the typical efficiency at the moment but it gives the sort of order of magnitude involved)
It'll be still less because we don't all use gas boilers and because other energy losses won't be affected by changing the boiler.
If 80% of our energy is used by industry then that is where most efforts should be applied, or maybe it's transport.
I'm not sure that a condenser circa 2004 will be necessarily any more complex nor problematic than an equivalent non-condenser, so it's a bit of a non-issue when choosing a boiler today. I expect that in 15 years time there will probably be a fair number of current vintage Vaillants et al going strong.
He does have a point in all that, but it's not well argued, or misguided in it's reasoning (shades of Clarkson here?) - it'd certainly be good to see a single figure for Total Lifecycle Cost for a whole number of products, including manufacture energy costs, distribution & installation, cost of expected manufacture for parts required over expected lifetime, and eventual disposal costs. This would have to be added to running energy consumption, and you might have a basis for equivalent comparison of differing designs of boilers vs their efficiency (& could in fact also be done for the ancient cast-iron inefficient lumps). Don't expect to see such a thing soon, though...
BTW, did anyone hear Howell on You and Yours last week trying to argue against Part P? Frustrating in the extreme, I was shouting at the radio. YAY is just crap, though....
P'raps a significant amount is also used pulling down old buildings and manufacturing/putting up new energy efficient ones... ;-)
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