CO as ratkiller ?

Enjoying a nightime nightcap in the pleasant weather (a few days ago, in case you missed it). Sitting on the decking I fitted to give level access from back to patio.
Opposite end of decking there's a brief commotion, and *two* rats shoot out from under the decking. (Which does make me wonder wtf the neighbours cats are up to when they prowl our garden ????)
From experience, trapping is hit and miss, and I know rats tend to avoid anywhere humans have been - making trap laying less effective.
Not a massive fan of poison - quite aside from the possibility of it not working anyway, the chances of a dead rat where you can't get to it isn't appealing.
I did have a vague idea about flooding the under-decking space with carbon monoxide ... never heard of it being used this way before, but as it's outdoors, and CO is heavier than air (and so should pool under the decking) ... If I then remove one of the decking planks, I can access the entire under-run to remove any rodent corpses ?
Or am I being too cavalier about risks of CO - despite it being outdoors and below the door level to the house ?
Can you buys CO canisters ? Or would a hardcore DIY project be to make my own CO source ?
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On 26/04/2018 13:59, Jethro_uk wrote:

You may have been thinking of carbon dioxide. Carbon monoxide is actually slighter less dense than air. (But not so as to make it matter all that much where you put a CO detector as it diffuses through a room.)
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On Thursday, 26 April 2018 14:15:36 UTC+1, Robin wrote:

At onetime you could get sulphur candles, far more effective. SO2 is deadly.
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On 26/04/2018 17:43, harry wrote:

You still can on Amazon: (Amazon.com product link shortened)
Works fine for sterilising the interior of a greenhouse but sadly doesn't kill red spider mite or mealy bug eggs. The pale blue flame of burning sulphur is quite attractive but the SO2 smoke is choking.
Not sure I would want to use one under a house though.
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Mol. wt of CO would be about 28, same as nitrogen and less than oxygen at 32. So I doubt this is true. You're probably thinking of CO2 (44).

Have you considered Sarin? It would probably work quicker.
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Roger Hayter

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On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 14:24:56 +0100, Roger Hayter wrote:

Salisbury has some poison for sale.
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Peter.
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I have wondered since they have had various areas cordoned off what may have become of any that may have been carried rain by rainwater run off into the river that runs alongside and under the seat and pub they visited which eventually makes its way into the Hampshire Avon and then into the sea near Christchurch in Dorset. If it isn’t easily removed by rain then and then a lot of dilution then the cordoned of area for so long seems to be a bit of overkill or its a problem that dare not be mentioned. The coppers guarding the area seem to be enjoying it ,they are from different forces all over the country and those that are from the big metropolis like London and Brum are finding standing by a Millstream watching Swans and having people chat to them a pleasant change from chasing tooled up gang members in some of the rougher areas they work.
GH
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I think there was an awful lot of security theatre around the incident. Either by design to fool the Russkies as to how much we really knew, or simple incompetence.
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On 27/04/2018 17:24, Jethro_uk wrote:

Given that it is a persistent nerve agent and its claimed LD50 being so very tiny I don't think the authorities have a choice but to be extremely careful about how they handle the decontamination process.
Something 10x more nasty than VX has to be handled with extreme care.
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On 26/04/2018 13:59, Jethro_uk wrote:

That's wrong on two counts. Neatly explained here:
https://nest.com/uk/support/article/Shouldn-t-a-carbon-monoxide-CO-alarm-be-installed-near-the-floor
Atomic weight of CO is very slightly less than N2, and quite a bit less than O2.
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Yes the only chance is co2 as I said before but even that won't stay there for long. I think you need to see where the rat runs are and attempt to catch them in a trap if you don't like poison. Chances are they are somewhere close by under some junk in a corner of somebody's outbuilding.
They have also to be near their food source. Brian
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On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 12:59:54 +0000, Jethro_uk wrote:

Seems I've learned something :) So a pretty good day.
I was under the impression (should have checked) that CO sank. It was this which triggered the rodenticide idea :)
If it doesn't sink, it's not really such a good idea, obviously.
Now I know CO2 is heavier than air (it sits on the top of fermenting vats).
But as a pesticide, it seems a bit hit and miss, and if rodent reflexes are like human ones (increased CO2 leads to distress) it's not very humane.
Mind you, neither is hoping a neighbourhood cat would do the job. But at least that's "nature" ...
Snakes ?
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Clearly rats can get out from under your decking, but can cats get in? If there isn’t room for cats to get in consider making room.
Tim
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On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 14:10:52 +0000, Tim+ wrote:

Ah, now that is an angle :)
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Get a similar problem occasionally,almost inevitable bordering fields and having compost bins and garden sheds. At least they are cleanish rats and not emerging from sewers of waste bins. Watching the interaction of Cats with the known runs using a PTZ camera with good night capability is interesting,the cats sniff around the the areas but never go for a grown rat and the that includes a large Maine Coone type Tom from up the road who I’ve seen stand up to a large dog and gives me a menacing “Take me on if you are big enough stare “ as well. They will deal with small young ones so the best hope is that they get enough of those that the ones that get past that stage are not enough to be considered an infestation if they stay down the bottom of the garden . Those that come closer can be shot ,the PTZ is useful as it detects them moving and it saves time waiting for them to emerge and loiter eating some bait like cat food placed on the lawn. Then using an air rifle with a an NV scope I can get them from the house window or sitting in a shed with the PTZ on the I Pad.
GH
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On 27/04/18 17:18, Marland wrote:

Thats why God invented terriers
Jack Russells are the bees knees

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8CGfp2NSx8

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Well aware of them and their usefulness at that task, my primary school adjoined one of the churches where he had been Rector and his name on the list of Rectors was a feature that was often pointed out . Brother usually has 3 or 4 of them with a young one introduced as an elder one winds down and dies. Sometimes I have to dog sit so he and wife can go away. Our normal lifestyle though would be unfair on a dog as I think it is unfair to leave them too long in a day unattended or put one into a kennel if we go away. A couple of near neighbours have dogs and I “borrow” one occasionally as a companion for a walk or pub visit. I’ve known them since they were pups who used to get out and arrive in our garden, It’s rather nice that both dogs and owners trust us enough to do that and when hearing about people as featured in those neighbours from hell programmes realise how lucky we are .
GH
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On 26/04/2018 13:59, Jethro_uk wrote:

Cats are apparently very good at keeping rats out of sight. Just the area where a cat roams will cause a rat to steer clear. So a mate told me (at length) in the pub the other night, and google backs up to some extent.
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On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 14:45:44 +0100, RJH wrote:

Out of sight, out of mind, eh :)
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On 26/04/2018 13:59, Jethro_uk wrote:

Decking! Man's contribution to providing homes for rats!
Mike
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