cheapest generator to keep the home fires burning...

ws.eternal-september.org...

Thats only two reviews.

Reply to
fred
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This appears to make it clear that it was the case in 1994!

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Not sure if that is current legislation or not, but I'd expect the reality to be similar.

Reply to
polygonum

For running anything containing electronics (CH boilers, TVs, etc.) you need good voltage stability and a decent (near sine wave) waveform. You won't get that from an el-cheapo generator and, furthermore, such a generator will be very noisy.

You really need an inverter-based generator. Honda make the best ones, but they are expensive. 'Clones' are made by the likes of Kapur and Clarke (Toolstation) - but check the reviews before buying one of these.

Unless you're going to have an elaborate change-over mechanism (and even then, a small genny will only handle a small part of the overall household electrical requirement) it's best to power just the essential things through an extension lead - so that there's no connection whatever between the genny and the mains wiring. This means that the CH will have to be powered from a 13A plug rather than an FCU, so that it can be unplugged from its socket and plugged into the genny.

From a safety point of view, you'll need an earth spike which grounds the frame of the genny, and then connect your extension lead via an RCD. Since the genny output will be floating, you may need to strap one side

- the side connected to your neutral wire - of this to earth to make your boiler work. [Others will explain this better, but boilers which utilise flame ionisation to detect that the pilot is lit before energising the main gas valve apparently need N to be referenced to E.]

I've got a Honda EU20i which I bought a few years ago for this exact purpose. I've not yet had to use it in anger - but I do run it for a few minutes each month to make sure that it still works(!) - and I have tested it with the CH, which I have wired to a 13A plug, as suggested above. This has an output of 2kW - and I wouldn't recommend anything smaller if running freezers, etc. because - although the running current is quite low, the start-up currents can be considerably higher. [For example, my genny is fussy about which of my power tools it will drive - and it won't even begin to start my 1.8kW compressor].

Reply to
Roger Mills

Yeah, can be a problem with gas boilers. If you do have to bond one of the generator phases to earth(*), making a "neutral" then an RCD at the generator really is required. I guess you could feed the CH/boiler via an isolating transformer and do the bonding on the isolated side, thus maintaining the floating side but TBH the RCD is probably the better solution.

That might be a mistake. Many a standby generator "tested" by simply starting for a few minutes, off load, each month has failed when required to actually do the work it is there to do. I drag ours out when I remember 6 months or so since the last use, start it up, hang a 1 kW fan heater off it and let it run for over an hour, I also switch the heater up to 2 kW and down to fan only a few times to check it throttles up/down correctly.

(*) I suspect that "earth" is just the chassis of the boiler but that could well be connected to the main earth terminal via the pipeworks equipotential bonding. The main earth terminal is the suppliers earth which may or may not remain real earth under supply fault conditions. Adding a local earth spike to the main earth terminal might not be a Good Idea or even against the regs with some supply types. See it gets complicated, maybe that isolating transformer isn't such a Bad Idea after all...

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

In a commercial setting we used to run our two 750 kVA Rolls Royce sets every 6 months for 30 minutes and test the dedicated circuits. In the nearly 4 years I was there they were only needed once in anger and they functioned perfectly.

Reply to
rbel

I worked in the NHS. We tested our automatic standby generators generators by turning off the HV electricity supply to the hospital once a week. In nearly forty years, I only once saw serious use made of them. Usually around a weeks supply of fuel is held (red diesel) Many hospitals are part of a HV ring main hence the supply is very secure.

Reply to
harry

like BBC TV Centre was in 1964!

Reply to
charles

I have a couple of unglazed terracotta coolers, each with its own glazed dish to hold water. One is designed to go over a milk bottle and the other is a butter dish. Relics of camping in the 1950s.

Colin Bignell

Reply to
Nightjar

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or, if that is a bit more than you want to pay

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Colin Bignell

Reply to
Nightjar

It's often quoted, but is one such failure in 50 years worth making provision for?

Thames TV installed a massive generator at their Teddington Studios in IIRC the late '70s - after there had been power interruptions. It was tested regularly, but to the best of my knowledge never used in anger. And was scrapped fairly recently, as it was taking up valuable car park space. ;-)

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

It still is law for telephone exchanges I believe, that they continue to function in the absence of mains power.

There is a LOT of generating capacity under hospitals, data centres and other places.

It doesn't cost that much to keep it there, and in the unlikely event of power failures a lot of basic services would otherwise go down.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

I suspect that refrigeration is the least of their worries.

Reply to
Huge

Not long enough to stop them voting for Salmond and his whirligigs I suspect.

See above.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Well there are two aspects. One is the likelyhood of failure. The other is the consequences if it does. But the 50 years was just my experience, it may not be typicaL.

Reply to
harry

Whereas an identical setup at a place I worked, with the same test regime failed the night the lights went out.

Reply to
Steve Firth

Ah, but we had a Chief Engineer who was very keen on preventative maintenance! My theory was that it was purely to justify budget enhancement and empire building :)

Reply to
rbel

It can fail for things you don't think to take into account. At 9/11, Telehouse NY, where we had some routers installed, went onto generator backup. This failed within a few hours because all the dust from the towers collapsing blocked the intake filters to the diesels.

Reply to
Tim Streater

My parents bought me those when I went to university in 1980.

A few months later, I bought a peltier-effect cooler box instead, in part because I was studying physics and it was the first time I'd seen a peltier-effect device in a real application, and it was in a sale at John Lewis.

I still have the cooler box, which did 3 years continuous use at university, and then another 10 years use in various offices I've been in since. It's on its 3rd peltier element, 4th fan, and 2nd power supply, and has a home-made aluminium catch after the original plastic snapped. I added proper thermostatic control using one of the Maplin digital thermostat modules, after the original control board stopped working.

It's not in regular use since use since 2000, but has been dug out for use over Christmas when lots of family are visiting, and long car journeys.

Actually, I bought another one at one point when it was on long-term loan to another student and I needed one, and that one is still fine too, but it never had thermostatic control.

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

The flame detection circuit of some boilers requires that the neutral is close to earth potential and the live and neutral are the right way around.

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

I also found that some motors don't like starting with a floating supply, oddly enough. They'll have a go, but make very 'cronky' noises while doing it.

Reply to
Grimly Curmudgeon

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