Central heating refurbishment help please

[David WE Roberts]

Had two plumbers/heating engineers round.

One was fairly uninvolved - checked the number of rooms, estimated radiators etc. Was not keen on a boiler in the bathroom because of boxing in. He suggested putting the boiler in the loft - told me you could have a vertical flue of (I think) 6-8m. I worked out that I could alternatively use the upstairs airing cupboard - he sort of agreed.

Second one was into detail - he was also not keen on the bathroom but was very keen on using the airing cupboard instead of the loft. Cold water, power, hot water out and CH in and out already located there. Put the boiler at the back and the hot pipework will warm the airing cupboard. Just need to take clothes etc. out once a year to service the boiler. What he said made a lot of sense at the time but I thought I would check a few things.

(1) Try and re-use the existing copper - the cost of copper is sky high at the moment so it makes sense to use as much of the existing as possible.

(2) For the central heating, you need to run with Fernox F3 or similar, then power flush after a few weeks to clean everything out if you are reusing the pipework.

(3) You should fit a MagnaClean

because after a few years you can get iron particles from the radiators and this really screws up a combi boiler. [At a cost of £82 I assume this is a saving on new copper - unless you need one even with a totally new system.]

(4) You need something to soften the water before it goes through the Combi - he said magnetic or electrostatic systems re-aligned the scale molecules for a few hours and were approved for Combis. I always thought that this was smoke and mirrors. [However, considering a whole house water softener.]

No doubt more later.

Cheers

LGC

[Dave Plowman (News)]

because after a few years you can get iron particles from the radiators

I'm in a hard water area - London. My system was self installed in the late '70s. Boiler changed for a condensing type some 6 years ago, again by myself.

No snake oil filters or water softeners - just inhibitor used and changed as per the maker's spec. Ie, about every 5 years. When I drain it down to change the inhibitor, the water isn't the black gunge so often reported here.

[David WE Roberts]

> because after a few years you can get iron particles from the radiators

This is a combi so the water treatment is for the direct hot water side where inhibitor is certainly not appropriate.

[NT]

yup

nope

it would stop the exchanger scaling and falling off in performance.

It is.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I have never regretted fitting a softener to the incoming mains..bar the kitchen tap of course. The better wear and tear on taps and the lack of scaling anywhere is well worth the cost and the savings in detergents and soaps more than pays for the 7 quid of salt a month I tip in,.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Sorry. All your talk was of radiators, etc.

[BartC]

MagnaClean

> very few diyers have them

It did mine. Otherwise where did the metal flakes clogging up the DHW heat exchangers and 3-way valves come from? Or don't you a consider a boiler needing major parts replaced being 'screwed up'?

[David WE Roberts]

MagnaClean

>>> very few diyers have them

:-) Making £80 sound a possible investment.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

Oh dear. Never, ever believe any bullshit like that simply because it comes from a plumber. I even found those electronic descalers at a government run training centre. Not fitted, but in the storeroom, waiting for trainees to be instructed about them, and not in a good way.

[David WE Roberts]

Wasn't actually thinking of fitting one - just intrigued that he seemed convinced that they were 'approved'. So was wondering who had 'approved' these things and if they offerred any warranty etc. Must Google. :-) There is some kind of arcane twisted wiring on the cold inlet of our current water supply but it hasn't stopped the shower scaling up.

Almost certainly going for whole house water softener as we are in a hard water area.

[charles]

[Snip]

are you sure that wasn't an old pipe heater in case of frost?

[David WE Roberts]

Yes.

[David WE Roberts]

"Uses magnetism to alter the characteristics of hard water, preventing scale from sticking to heat exchange surfaces. Can be installed on the incoming main for whole house protection, or on the cold feed to an individual appliance. Protects combi boilers, hot water heaters, electric showers, hot water cylinders, immersion heaters etc. Specification LF15: Max flow 0.6 l/min, 15mm compression fittings, length 270 mm, dia 45mm, max pressure 10 bar, max water temp 25 deg C, casing ABS.

Features Include:

Magnetic water conditioner Single appliance or whole house protection Lower heating bills Water remains potable No maintenance Lifetime warranty"

Some eyewateringly expensive solutions on

the name it sounds like a water supplier (like Thames Water) but as far as I can tell it isn't.

With this amount of stuff around I suppose that it is not surprising that the average plumber will believe some of it.

Oh, and the first one says maximum flow of 0.6l per minute which is about a pint. A pint a minute? When pushed I can drink faster than that. Shurely shome mishtake?

Cheers

Dave R

[NT]

far

Sounds like the perfect getout clause. Customer used it on more than

0.6lpm therefore any claims made or warranty doesnt apply.

NT

[Lee]

Aren't most (all?) combi DHW heat exchangers internally coated with Teflon or similar these days? Keeping the DHW temp a little lower would seem to helpful as well.

I did fit one of the permanent magnet "softeners" when this boiler was installed 9 years ago (it was "free"..) whether it has been helpful in anyway it that time would be difficult to say.

Lee

[Hugo Nebula]

"Approved", maybe as in it's been tested and does no actual harm.