Boiler - water from the flue

[Rob]

I posted about this a while ago, and the plumber came round and diagnosed a faulty flue shroud. Water was coming out of the flue and forming a pond underneath. The shroud has now been redesigned with a 'bubble' to force water/steam back down the flue. I still don't follow how that volume of water could follow such a convoluted route (1m vertical, 3m horizontal), but still.

Just been outside and seen this:

(?) the flue joint has failed, but this seems like a bonkers amount of water to be ejected? I'll let the plumber know about this, but any opinions welcome.

Rob

[Harry Bloomfield]

Rob expressed precisely :

My guess would be that all of that water is simply the condensate and that ice has managed to form in the pipe which has simply pushed the O ring seal out of the pipe - it is not a flue pipe, it is a condensate drain pipe. Condensate drains are causing lots of problems due to icing up in this cold spell.

The length of condensate pipe does seem to be excessive, and it looks as if it goes up from the point where it emerges from the wall. In which case the condensate water would need to fill the pipe to be able to flow down - that cannot be right, is the photo upside down?

[Graham.]

of water to be ejected? I'll let the plumber know

has managed to form in the pipe which has simply

condensate drain pipe. Condensate drains are causing lots

goes up from the point where it emerges from the

able to flow down - that cannot be right, is the photo

No in the sense that the picture shows exactly what the OP saw leaning out of the window above the pipe with his camera.

[Heliotrope Smith]

Rob wrote in news:4d123d29$0$5124$c3e8da3 $ [e-mail]:

to the flue outlet.

At four metres long the water vapour that would be released to the air is condensing in the pipe and running back and leaking from the faulty joint.

Your description leads me to suspect that the boiler manufactures kit has not been used but made up from plastic waste/drain fittings.

A flue or flue parts should not be modified without consulting the manufactures as this could lead to the boiler being in a dangerous condition.

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[Andrew Gabriel]

Such a volume is expected from a condensing boiler.

I had a leak in my Keston when I first fitted it. It turned out to be a faulty flue spiggot and nothing to do with any of my joints, but I repaired it nevertheless rather than waiting days for another part. The condensate is corrosive, and to be sure there were no more leaks, I left the hosepipe trickling into the end of the flue for

20 minutes or so, and checked the water wasn't going anywhere (other than down the condensate drain). I don't know if that's a safe or harmless test for your boiler, but it was effective with mine, and if it had been included in the commissioning instructions, it would have shown up the leak before it had a chance to corrode anything.

[Rob]

Yes, I think the water is condensate. There was visible wetness at the point shown by the arrow. I defer to your knowledge about what that pipe is called, but it does make me wonder where waste gas goes.

No, the first photo is me looking up at what I thought was a flue (extension kit). The second photo is me looking down, at what I've identified (incorrectly) as the condensate pipe. I wonder what that diagonal pipe is then?! The picture at the bottom is that (what I thought was a condensate) pipe continuing on its path and out to a drain.

Curious! I wonder why he installed all of those pipes! And where's the flue!!

Thanks - the plumber's coming round later today - I'll report back.

Rob

[Andy Burns]

That'll be the one with the plume of water vapour streaming out of it when the boiler is running ...

[Rob]

Mmm - a few have identified that pipe as the condensate pipe. Plot thickens, I'll ask the plumber when he comes round.

Rob

[John]

Not a straight forward flue - but a "Plume Management" kit or bodge. (IMHO)

[cynic]

The flue through the wall in picture 1 appears to be an Ideal fan flue version to which someone has added a section of pushfit waste pipe to extend the flue gas discharge point to where the plume will not create a mess. I have just googled for ideal plume management kit without success so there is a distinct possibility that your installer has invented his own version.

I would telephone Ideal Boilers in Hull for a definitive answer as to the authenticity of the kit you have fitted to your boiler.

IF it is a manufacturers kit the pipe should run up hill all the way from boiler to atmosphere and the joints should not leak. If this pipe is not an ideal product then you need to be contacting trading standards and gas-safe as only approved flue designs should be used with any boiler.

The diagonal pipe is quite likely to be the condensate pipe but may need lagging.

The rabid enthusiasm for installing condensing boilers seems to be coming unstuck in our present winter conditions when the boilers heat is most needed.

[RobertL]

You see this kind of thing a lot: a balanced flue has had the (inner) outlet pipe extended to vent flue gases at some distance from the inlet. Surely the purpose of a balanced flue is that the outlet and inlet are close together so that local pressure variations affect both the same way.

Do manufacturers really make kits to separate two?

Robert

[dennis]

It isn't a balanced flu. It is a fanned flu.

They do for fanned flus.

[Rob]

I think you're right. He's just been back and said something about sections of pipe being too short, and he's just (this minute) replaced it, along with the shroud at the flue exit.

I take your point, but frankly I don't want to drop him in it. and he does *seem* to know what he's talking about.

Mmmm. Again, see where you're going. If I have more bother I will ask him directly what it is he's fitted/I've paid for, and whether it is compliant.

Yes, it is the condensate pipe, and it has a suspiciously horizontal 2m run. We have both stood and looked at it, and agreed today that it could be a problem. But it appears unrelated to the current issue.

These things ought to be working properly in -20, never mind -5.

Thanks for your insights.

rob

[Andrew Gabriel]

There seem to be a significant proportion of gas installers who, although properly registered, actually haven't got the faintest idea how a modern boiler works, and can't even follow the most basic step-by-step installation instructions which all boilers seem to come with (presumably because the manufacturers know a lot of the installers are clueless).

No disrespect to the installers here, BTW.

The OP might want to sit down with the installation instructions (which by law, the installer must have left with him), and just check through how compliant the installation is, just based on the things you can see without opening up anything.

[Mathew Newton]

That's an interesting sense of loyalty you've got there - if what he's fitted is indeed an unauthorised DIY bodge one can only assume he's probably doing this on other installs too. What if one of these bodges leads to a situation whereby another owner ends up dying from CO poisoning due to failure of the flue to vent?

They do, but only if installed properly with due consideration for the effects of persistently-low temperatures.

Mathew

[John]

If the condensate pipe is frozen then won't the flue pipe get waterlogged?

[John]

Good tip Andrew. When mine was fitted I was glad I had downloaded a set of instructions so that I could anticipate was and wasn't possible.

It was just as well I had read the instructions for the RF Thermostat - to get it tuned to the receiver. (We nearly came to blows!)

Some plumbers are good pipe fitters - a few are good boiler technicians (but different aptitudes are required IMHO)

[fred]

Not that I approve but the alternative to going along with it may be a condemned installation and immediate disconnection. The installation appears to be in a covered walkway and if it is, I can't see it meeting the regs.

[cynic]

CORGI were getting very uptight about flues discharging under covered walkways prior to their demise and the creation of the gas-safe register. Why did this installer not use a different flue configuration?

[Tony Bryer]

Yes, Glow-worm do, and Keston boilers have separate inlet and outlet pipes which can be in different locations (though not opposite sides of the building)