Belt sanders

[Scott M]

I bought a B&Q PPPro belt sander about 10 years[0] ago on a bit of a whim to try and scrape old cruddy paint off walls. Didn't work terribly well and since then its languished in the tool box.

Dug it out again yesterday as I've been trying to get into a bit of woodwork, inspired by Mr Rumm of this parish[1]. I'd (rather labouriously) thinned some 38mm down to 28mm with the router[2] and remembered the belt sander which finished it all off an absolute treat. I became an instant convert and finally realised how people actually get wood that's nice to touch instead of being a sharp cornered collection of splinters.

Now, on the very last corner out comes the magic smoke. Bugger. Runs slowly and gets hot - looks like some windings are melting together.

So I think I ought to replace it. I've got a bit more I'd like to use it for but it could end up another 10 years before it comes out again. The reviews of cheap ones say they go phut in short order, second hand ones on eBay are out of the ark[3] and good ones are pricey. Bosch Green suddenly looks cheap & nasty compared to what it used to be and, overall, there's not a lot of choice.

I presume the problem is the relatively low speed coupled with a huge drive requirement to overcome friction so would a (random) orbital sander be a better bet? Or do I hope for the best with a cheapy? Or is there a magic mid-priced one that I might actually feel like springing for?

[0] I notice the current Clarke BS1 is *identical* [1] whom I shall never forgive; I don't think I'm cut out for anything that doesn't later get covered in plasterboard. [2] which I bought years ago because you lot raved about routers. Bastards, the lot of you. [3] B&D's "Made in W Germany", Makita with 1997 on the rating plate, etc.

[GMM]

I dn't know the 'right' answer (assuming there is one!) but I've never had much joy trying to master my belt sander while the random orbital seems to function well. I notice Lidl have them from 29 June for less than 20 quid, so it wouldn't be a big investment to try one and see how it works out for you. I've no idea about the quality of Lidl tools but others here seem to think highly of them.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Belt sander is great for quick rough work. Takes some skill to get reasonably accurate results, though - so not much different from most tools.

Lidl usually offer a 3 year money back warranty (if you have the original store receipt) I've got lots of Lidl tools, but never needed this.

I'm not saying they are as good as Makita, just they are exceptional value for money.

But my belt sander is a Bosch. ;-)

[Roger Mills]

When you say that "Lidl have them from 29 June" you presumably mean random orbital rather than belt sanders - since they don't appear to be offering the latter, although they do have the belts for them.

FWIW, I've had a Lidl (Parkside?) belt sander for quite a few years. It only gets used intermittently - but it's been reliable and is very good for the things it's good it. I use it mainly with the supplied bench stand, so that I bring the workpiece to the belt rather than the other way round. I find that easier than hand-holding the machine - but sometimes have to when sanding large items such as doors.

I don't know when Lidl will next offer a belt sander (or, indeed, whether their recent offerings are the same model as mine) but it would be worth considering if you can wait until they next come around.

[Scott M]

For some reason I find I can get better results with the more heavy duty tools than the "delicate" ones. Like NZ Matt (where'd he go?) and his angle grinder. After I'd finished doing my 8' boards with the belt sander I has a rather good flat surface. I suspect if I'd tried it with my long-lost orbital sander I'd have ended up with a mess.

The cheapy Makita belt sander (£70 ish) I found gets quite poor reviews which makes me think....

... that I may end up with a Bosch belter notwithstanding what I said about Green Bosch earlier!

[Scott M]

Well spotted that man. At that price I think I'll pick up a ROS. My orbital sander (part of a 2 pack with the belt sander) has long disappeared; I presume it broke and got slung.

[Scott M]

I've half a mind Aldi had the belt sander a little while ago. Grrrrr, if only I'd known, etc, etc!

[Dave Plowman (News)]

They're really different tools IMHO. A random orbit sander will give a nice finish on something already to size. A belt sander can be used to ease a sticking door - a bit more like a plane.

[Scott M]

Yes, I was just thinking that, at that price, it's justifiable for the rare bit of light sanding I do. Although with the quality of my woodworking, I suspect I need the belt sander more than I realise!

[Roger Mills]

. . or to strip a painted surface back to bare wood.

[John Rumm]

My first belt sander was a cheap one (Ferm IIRC) - it was a waste of space - crude, slow, heavy, massive - and did not last long before the plastic frame warped enough that you could not get a belt to track properly.

I replaced it with a second hand Makita 9911 like:

Makita 9911 belt sander 240v

and I absolutely love it. Smooth, quiet, quite compact (3" rather than

4" belt), plenty of power and astonishingly good dust collection (you can see it collecting not only its own dust, but practically vacuuming any stuff laying around in close proximity at the same time!)

Oops, all my fault I suppose ;-)

You also want massive air flow through it for both cooling and dust collection.

A ROS is a kind of different beast IMHO. I suppose if you were only going to have one sander, then that would be the one to go for.

Well, make some crap things to start with. Watch some woodworking videos on youtube, and then practice - it gets easier to make something that you don't end up feeling too bad about in the end!

I Love routers... I think I have four or five of them now ;-)

[John Rumm]

I think belt sanders seem to get a bum rap as being difficult to use... I am not sure if this is down to some poor tools out there, or non conventional use, but I find mine to be very usable.

The only technique to master is:

Don't force it - the weight of the machine is enough. Keep it flat - don't let the nose or tail roller take any of the weight. Keep it moving about. Work down through the grits[1], and do your final sand with the grain if possible.

I did most of the primary finishing with my belt sander on :

and

I find it really good for getting joint edges level after a glue up.

[1] i.e. Starting coarse and going down through the grits. I *thought* I understood this for years, but only relatively recently realised that I did not really!

I used to think that if starting with wood that was already planed smooth, I would could miss out the first stage with a coarse grit, and jump straight in at (say) 120.

This it turns out is a *big* mistake. Yes its already nearly smooth, yes the finer grit will make it feel smoother. However it will never look properly flat! You will also then come across a panel joint or similar where there is a tiny mismatch, and so will concentrate on that a bit with the finer grit. You will get it level, in the end, but only when its got finish on it, will you see that you have dished the surface in the mismatched area trying to get the step out! (DAMHIK)

So, don't be afraid to get in there are be brutal with 40 or 60 grit - sand the whole thing flat. Even if that does mean it will get rougher before it gets smoother. Do all the primary stages (you can skip some intermediate ones) - say start with 40 or 60, then 80, then 120, then

220 or 240 then finer if you need to. Each stage gets quicker - its the first one that does all the work, the remainder is just polishing off the scratch pattern left by the last.

[John Rumm]

I used to look at the silly money you can pay for a sander and think "who in their right mind?" etc. Now, having used lots, and done lots of sanding, I begin to understand "who" and why (and now lust after ever better sanders!)

[Scott M]

Funnily enough, it was the latest incarnation of the 9911 that gets a few poor reviews on Amazon. I'll keep an eye out for a pre-recession one.

The fins on the PPPro fan were rather weedy and not aerodynamically designed at all. As are most power tool fans IME but most generally run the fan faster so I suppose that explains the poor life of belt sanders.

I've been watching many YouTube router-y videos, mostly American whose generously sized workshops makes me want to throw things at the screen. That and reading some ruddy wiki where impressive things are easily knocked up with the right tools in 6 colour plates has put me on the slippery slope :-)

I've only got a little Bosch 1/4" (also about 10YO) and after occasional attempts to burn up wood and ruin cheapy cutters I think I've got the hang of it. Worse, I keep eyeing up 1/2" ones.....

[John Rumm]

Yea, just had a look at some - quite an odd mix on the set I saw - average 4 stars, with most users giving it five, but then a handful of 1 star reviews for what sound like complete lemons. Makes you wonder if some counterfeit stock had made it into the channel somewhere.

Yup, The Wood Whisperer, and Frank Howarth's, and now the new one built by The Woodpecker would fall nicely into that category. However there is very good and informative content out there. However look at some of Allan's stuff on Ask Woodman and he seems to turn out very professional results in a far less "ideal" environment.

I use my half inch once least I would say - one exclusively in the table.

[Scott M]

Oh, I wasn't dissing the content of any particularly, just that space is never a problem in America. It shouldn't be here but I think we behave as if the country's a lot smaller than it is! I shall check out Allan, ta.

Interesting you say that. Having always assumed that there was a big step change between 1/4" & 1/2" bits, since trying to use mine properly I was pleasantly surprised to find that there's not much in it. The rounding off bits I've got seem to be as big as anything 1/2" and do the job just as well. My 600W doesn't struggle, tho it's only pine of course. I suspect I might find a bigger footplate more of a pain in some cases too.