Such as ??? .andy
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20 years ago
Alarm advice with cats in mind.
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20 years ago
On 17 Jan 2004, PJO wrote
So you're not willing to describe it, even in outline?
Just "trust me, I'm a pro and I know how to do this"?
No thanks.
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20 years ago
If I tell you, then I'd have to kill you so it didn't go any further. :-))
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20 years ago
You must be some magician if you can conceal cables totally without chasing them in. Nor would I even consider a wireless type - even if they had been available when I installed it.
Fathom it out? The remote panel at the front door tells me which zone - if any - is not 'set'. And can be isolated from there if necessary. Tell me, does it take *you* ages to fathom out a simple fault like this?
You're not well up on electrics, are you? It's an electrical wholesaler often mentioned on here.
Yes, it is every bit as secure as the main panel - perhaps more so. Of course, I wouldn't expect you to be able to design such thing, let alone understand it.
I'm glad I took advice from a true professional, then, the local crime prevention officer.
It works well and has done since it was installed with zero problems. Not, luckily, that it's ever been needed in anger. And I take it then your work *is* too the same standard as all the others - cables everywhere, or just tucked underneath carpets? Personally, I'd rather be burgled than look at that sort of a mess all day...
Perhaps the 'new' fad for wood floors taxed your cable hiding ability too much?
So you know better than the relevant standards makers too? Figures.
I'm afraid I'm putting you in the same box as IMM - full of theories and hot air.
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20 years ago
IMM is alive and well.
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20 years ago
Roughly translated - he's talking through his arse.
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20 years ago
Each and ever job is done at ht etime and to suit. There are no specific rules or ways so no, sorry, I can't help. I'd literally have to show you.
Again, using proper tools, patience and skill. Metre long drills, flexidrills and wire coat hangers usually suffice!
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20 years ago
I can't sescribe in words, sorry. Try learning any practical trade from a book and you'll understand.
Christ, I didn't say YOU HAVE to believe me!
Tell you what, describe to me here on this group how to strip wall paper. In words I (and everyone else) can understand. Then tell me how to paint, plumb, wire, etc. All in words.
Get the point? Have you got time?!
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20 years ago
You stick to fitting the systems and I'll stick to making properties secure.
Roughly translated to - Shut the f*^k up.
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20 years ago
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20 years ago
I'm not sure this question is related to what you have said, but I'll ask it anyway.
The metre long drill....do I assume that you drill across the width of a door or window in order to run the cable thru the door from a magnetic switch to the hinge side?
I'd be interested to know how you manage to keep the drill lined up with the door!
PoP
Sending email to my published email address isn't guaranteed to reach me.
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20 years ago
If I start to tell folks how a professional installs security equipment then it wouldn't be very secure. Would it ? Electronic security is, and always has been, the last line of defence in all security systems. So having an alarm today with all the DIY products on the market, is like having a flag telling people you have things they want to steal from you.
You, yourself, should know how easy it is to fool an alarm system into thinking it is not being attacked, and on that point it is not possible to be one hundred percent sure that your system is going to be effective in preventing someone from attacking you property.
If you don't know how these procedures work, then I'll say again, you stick to fitting the electronic systems, and I'll stick to making property secure.
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20 years ago
Well that's a failure to understand security at line 1. You cannot achieve security through obscurity.
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20 years ago
Oh come on, that's a pretty poor argument.
It isn't as though we are talking about the ultrasecret (aka British knowledge of Enigma during WW2) is it?
Alarm installers and security consultants are not part of some secret brotherhood with initiation rituals are they?
As somebody already said, it becomes a question of the perceived or actual value of the prize, and then making and maintaining the counter measures to achieve an acceptable level of risk, considering the miscreants that are likely to attack the target.
Obfuscation is one way of achieving a level of security, but not a particularly effective one.
It does seem that your points are understandably about protecting a commercial business or trade against the onslaught of DIY.
That's fine, but at the end of the day, the market is the market. Some people will call in professional installers and pay the money, others will put in what they can buy in the DIY sheds as cheaply as possible. In the middle, there are people who would like to select and buy professional materials and install them themselves armed with an appropriate level of knowledge.
I was hoping that you might have had some useful information to impart to this latter group, who are not setting out to secure a bank, but who are not going to employ a professional.
Using your own point about information, if I fit various security measures to my property that are a subset of a vast menu, then I know about them and nobody else. If I employ a professional, then at least one more person knows about them, and if it is a professional installation is undoubtedly also documented somewhere.
.andy
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20 years ago
Still nobody has given the magic answer to how to conceal a cable from a door sensor without chasing. I can only draw the conclusion that PJO has a bendy drill, or loves RF wireless.
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20 years ago
Nice cop-out.
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20 years ago
A very valid point. I can remember around 12 years ago a rather well known London based alarm company sent in an engineer to do some routine service work on a customers alarm system. While there, the engineer shorted out some detectors and that night the place was screwed by his mates. The engineer fully expected to be returned to the job to hide his work but tragically for him a different engineer was sent who then discovered the shorts. The engineer ended up in clink and the companies reputation throughout the industry was severely damaged.
And that also brings me back to the point I raised above of it being an absolute must to have anti-tamper wiring to ALL parts of the system. PIR's etc are very easy to short out once you have the lid off.
So yes, involving any third party, inc. professional companies, does involve some risk.
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20 years ago
Yes, I do have a bendy drill. Bought it in USA years ago. It bends to around
30 degrees.OK, here's a rough "how to" (without a bendy!)
If it's a concealed type contact fit it approx 4 inches up the frame. Drill the necessary 20mm hole and then use a 16 inch drill (readily available) to drill down through the 20mm hole to floor level. Drill a suitable hole into the skirting at floor level and then simply fish the cable. If there is a floor void then drill all the way down into that and fish from under. For top mounted contacts drill the 20mm home in the head and then use a long drill (1 metre drills are also readily available) to drill up through the wall/plaster until you reach the next floor/loft level and then fish the cable accordingly. If the contact is surface, i.e. on a PVC door, then you can use the same methods but you may have to silicone up the fish holes.
That is a very brief explanation for the guy who does not believe and like I said earlier I have installed thousands of systems and never once have I shown a cable.
Think about it... most systems are contacts and PIR's. Drilling door frames as above hides the contact cables. Windows (if you really must) can be done similar. As for PIR's, fit them at ceiling height of just below the coving and again drill up at an angle into the floor/loft space and fish. Try to bring all wiring from above. Try to install the panel upstairs in a cupboard/wardrobe and a keypad downstairs. With some fore thought you can have a super neat installation which is quicker than clipping cables all over the place. Also try to use ID systems to minimise wiring. I can install a decent system in a four bed detached - 6 PIR's, front door, a couple of PA's, etc - in just one full day. The average DIYer should certainly be able to do it PROPERLY in a weekend!
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20 years ago
Christ no. The long drills are used to drill through frames into floor spaces or up through plaster work. See my other post explaining.
On saying that though drilling through doors used to be a common task when switched locks were popular years ago. A switch in a chubb lock would be used to isolate an area such as a spirit store in a pub. Most engineers would fit the lock and bring the cable out onto the door and then clip or trunk it across the door to the hinge side. We used to drill all the way through and out through the opposite edge. Then a small hole into the door brought the cable into a door loop box and hey presto - a super neat job with no cables showing! The only give away being a small hole on the hinged edge which is easily filled and probably will never be seen anyway.
How did we keep the drill straight? With patience and by using a short drill until it ran out, then a longer, then an longer, etc.
The drills we used for this we had made. A simply 10mm drill extended with a bar and welded. You can't buy long wood drills whereas you can buy 1m long masonry drills.
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20 years ago
Absolutely. If a 'pro' like PJO was asked to fix a fault on my system with the home made relay interface, he'd run a mile. Pros like to deal with things they know and understand. With a security system, this ain't necessarily a good idea given that a 'pro' burglar who could defeat such things will have had to learn his 'trade' somewhere too...