advice on remaking a leaking 15mm yorkshire fitting

Hi all we have had a minor plumbing drama here tonight - water dripping from the kitchen ceiling etc.
I have traced it to the plumbing to the upstairs washing basin - the 15mm pipe to the hot water tap appears to be leaking at the last 90-degree Yorkshire elbow before the tap.
Emergency action had been to turn off the valve providing water 'upstream', and put a container under the elbow; lifting up the pipe (which was 'dangling' in mid air a bit) seems to have helped for now.
Tomorrow I will have to look at a proper repair. I have never had a joint fail on me before (the soldering for this was done around ten years ago, not by me ;-/)
It is possible/sensible to try to remake the joint, simply by holding the pipes in the correct position, and applying heat and solder? Or is it necessary to pull the joint apart (any tips on this?) and remake with a fresh elbow/solder?
Thanks for any advice
Jon N
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On 20/12/2014 23:42, jkn wrote:

Chances are the joint was never made properly in the first place, so it could be full of all sorts of crud in the places where solder is supposed to be. So best option would be to remake it.
To be able to heat and reflow the existing solder so as to get it apart means you need to get that bit of pipe completely empty as well. Sometimes its easier to cut them out if you can't. To heat and reflow you will need to get it hot, and then use a twisting action with a pair of water pump pliers or mole grips etc while pulling on the hot fitting.
To remake the joint, clean both pipe ends well with wire wool or similarso it bright and shiny. Flux the ends of pipe, and push them home into the fitting. If the new fitting is a solder ring one, then heat the fitting and adjacent pipe until you see a bright ring of solder appear at each end. For end feed, once the solders starts to flow, feed about 1cm of solder into each end and then let it cool.
--
Cheers,

John.
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On Saturday, December 20, 2014 11:42:57 PM UTC, jkn wrote:

the kitchen ceiling etc.

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I don't expect reheating it to work. Not only does it have whatever stopped it making a sound joint in the first place, its then got 10yrs of crud in it. Solder needs spotless cleanliness (or mechanical agitation while hot to get past adhering crud). To resolder it you'd need to take it apart & clea n it perfectly - replace the section with new will be much easier.
NT
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Neither do I.

And corrosion due to the leak now too.

Nope, just quite clean. That's the reason for the flux.

Nope, just quite clean. That's the reason for the flux.

Trouble is that you have to clean what you connect to.
Getting it off and cleaning the pipe properly and using a new yorkshire fitting will work fine, but its not a trivial exercise because you have to get the water out of the pipe so you can heat it properly even to get the old fitting off.
How easy that is to do depends on the detail of the pipe but it does sound like it may not be that hard with his.
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The main problem will e getting rid of any remaining water in the pipe. You won't be able to do anything until this is done. For this reason you may have to cut the pipe, drain the water & start again. (So an straight connector will be needed or maybe a bit more pipe.)
Supposing you can get rid of the water, sometimes the joint can be reheated and more solder & flux appled. But usually not, the joint might have to be heated and pulled apart. Then clean up (heat and wipe off old solder with a dry cloth). Redo as normal.
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wrote:

Cut it out and replace with a flexible tap connector such as one of these http://tinyurl.com/ktqr6rv or flexible pipe repair kit like http://tinyurl.com/pptww2l ? Saves the hassle of having to unsolder the existing elbow and soldering in a new one.
--

Chris

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"Chris Hogg" wrote in message

Yes I'd agree with Chris's solution - far less hassle. However if you do try to un-solder, a couple of tips. Firstly to drain the pipe apply a 'wet & dry' vac to the open tap and suck the water out. Secondly, unsoldering fittings can be a nightmare as they often jam, this can be eased by applying more solder and flux as you try to pull the joints apart.
Andrew
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Hi all, thanks fot the various bits of advice
OK, I take the point about there being 10 years of crud in the joint. I also think the fact that the pipe has been unsupported for this time has made a difference.
Sounds like I'll have to cut the pipe back a bit anyway, then either remake the joint anew, or use one of the flexible connectors as suggested. I hadn't realised that you get get them in fairly long lengths (900mm); although not my preference that may be the way to go.
Here's to a fun Sunday afternoon...
Cheers Jon N
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Shouldn't have if its only just started leaking now.

Yes.

Yes, but that isnt as reliable in the long term as copper pipe and a joint redone properly.

I wouldn't myself, but its certainly easier.
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On 21/12/2014 09:05, jkn wrote:

You're certainly better off cutting out the offending joint and starting again.
If there's room, I would do the following.
Use a cylindrical cutter to cut each pipe a couple of inches or so back from the elbow. Clean up the ends of the remaining pipes with wire wool. Then reassemble, using copper push-fit fittings - so you'll need one elbow, 2 straight couplers and 2 short lengths of 15mm copper pipe. That will be much neater than using a flexible pipe.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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On 21/12/2014 08:09, Chris Hogg wrote:

+1
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

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wrote:

If using push fit connectors, do remember to de-burr and clean the ends of the pipe very thoroughly. This gives good advice http://tinyurl.com/pfjo5c2
--

Chris

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If you use one of the roller pipe cutters, that leaves an ideal pipe end for pushing push-fit connectors on.
Note that flexible connectors don't have same life as copper pipe (that's properly soldered copper pipe, anyway;-)
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
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Either the solder has failed, or the fitting has gone porous in some way.
Either way, I'd remove it and replace with new. As with all soldering you need to make sure things are clean before proceeding.
--
*Oh, what a tangled website we weave when first we practice *

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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jkn wrote:

My hard silver soldered joints never leak.
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On 21/12/2014 12:10, F Murtz wrote:

Neither do soft soldered ones if they done right - same as any soldering.
--
Cheers,

John.
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How do you know it is the soldering that is the problem in this case?
--
*A fool and his money are soon partying *

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Dont,But nothing leaks near my hard silver soldered joints. :)
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On Sat, 20 Dec 2014 15:42:55 -0800 (PST), jkn wrote:

"appears" or actually is? Check that the water isn't coming from higher up, failed fibre washer in tap connector? Turn off supply to that section, open tap, dry everything off with kitchen roll, turn on supply, vent air from tap, turn of tap, find the leak, a finger tracing around joints pipes starting at the highest point and frequently checked for wet is good.
The "dangling" nature of the pipe sort of indicates that something is loose, has the pipe partially pulled out of the tap connector?
If it is the yorkshire draining down is simply a matter of turning of the hot supply to the house opening hot tap upstairs and hot tap down stairs...
I'd give it a very careful inspection. Does it look like a dry (as in solder) joint? ie the ring of visible solder each end of the fitting should be smooth, even, complete and whetted to the pipe and fitting. Is there any obvious mark for the leak? You may have to clean up any old flux/lime scale to inspect properly.
Unless it's really bad I'd just reheat have lots of flux on the solder and run more solder in. Allow to cool then test. If that didn't work, cut out and either replace (two couplers and elbow required starts to look messsy) or use a flexi tap connector.
--
Cheers
Dave.
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Hi Dave
On Sunday, 21 December 2014 12:28:05 UTC, Dave Liquorice wrote:

Good News - on rolling up my sleeves and investigating further, prior to my planned repair, it turns out that it was simply that the top of the final flexible hose had worked loose where it fitted onto the tap itself. The taps are a little loose on the basin and occasional re-positioning must have loosened things off.
A quick tighten with a spanner seems to have sorted things; I'll re-do the actual tap seating when I find my basin spanner...
In fairness to myself, I would have double-check the real (as opposed to 'apparent') source of the leak before I set to, but your reminder didn't do any harm ;-)
Right, what's next?...
Cheers Jon N
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