advice on remaking a leaking 15mm yorkshire fitting

[jkn]

Hi all we have had a minor plumbing drama here tonight - water dripping from the kitchen ceiling etc.

I have traced it to the plumbing to the upstairs washing basin - the 15mm pipe to the hot water tap appears to be leaking at the last 90-degree Yorkshire elbow before the tap.

Emergency action had been to turn off the valve providing water 'upstream', and put a container under the elbow; lifting up the pipe (which was 'dangling' in mid air a bit) seems to have helped for now.

Tomorrow I will have to look at a proper repair. I have never had a joint fail on me before (the soldering for this was done around ten years ago, not by me ;-/)

It is possible/sensible to try to remake the joint, simply by holding the pipes in the correct position, and applying heat and solder? Or is it necessary to pull the joint apart (any tips on this?) and remake with a fresh elbow/solder?

Thanks for any advice

Jon N

[John Rumm]

Chances are the joint was never made properly in the first place, so it could be full of all sorts of crud in the places where solder is supposed to be. So best option would be to remake it.

To be able to heat and reflow the existing solder so as to get it apart means you need to get that bit of pipe completely empty as well. Sometimes its easier to cut them out if you can't. To heat and reflow you will need to get it hot, and then use a twisting action with a pair of water pump pliers or mole grips etc while pulling on the hot fitting.

To remake the joint, clean both pipe ends well with wire wool or similarso it bright and shiny. Flux the ends of pipe, and push them home into the fitting. If the new fitting is a solder ring one, then heat the fitting and adjacent pipe until you see a bright ring of solder appear at each end. For end feed, once the solders starts to flow, feed about

1cm of solder into each end and then let it cool.

[meow2222]

the kitchen ceiling etc.

I don't expect reheating it to work. Not only does it have whatever stopped it making a sound joint in the first place, its then got 10yrs of crud in it. Solder needs spotless cleanliness (or mechanical agitation while hot to get past adhering crud). To resolder it you'd need to take it apart & clea n it perfectly - replace the section with new will be much easier.

NT

[harryagain]

The main problem will e getting rid of any remaining water in the pipe. You won't be able to do anything until this is done. For this reason you may have to cut the pipe, drain the water & start again. (So an straight connector will be needed or maybe a bit more pipe.)

Supposing you can get rid of the water, sometimes the joint can be reheated and more solder & flux appled. But usually not, the joint might have to be heated and pulled apart. Then clean up (heat and wipe off old solder with a dry cloth). Redo as normal.

[Chris Hogg]

Cut it out and replace with a flexible tap connector such as one of these

or flexible pipe repair kit like ? Saves the hassle of having to unsolder the existing elbow and soldering in a new one.

[Andrew Mawson]

Yes I'd agree with Chris's solution - far less hassle. However if you do try to un-solder, a couple of tips. Firstly to drain the pipe apply a 'wet & dry' vac to the open tap and suck the water out. Secondly, unsoldering fittings can be a nightmare as they often jam, this can be eased by applying more solder and flux as you try to pull the joints apart.

Andrew

[jkn]

Hi all, thanks fot the various bits of advice

OK, I take the point about there being 10 years of crud in the joint. I also think the fact that the pipe has been unsupported for this time has made a difference.

Sounds like I'll have to cut the pipe back a bit anyway, then either remake the joint anew, or use one of the flexible connectors as suggested. I hadn't realised that you get get them in fairly long lengths (900mm); although not my preference that may be the way to go.

Here's to a fun Sunday afternoon...

Cheers Jon N

[Chris Hogg]

If using push fit connectors, do remember to de-burr and clean the ends of the pipe very thoroughly. This gives good advice

[Andrew Gabriel]

If you use one of the roller pipe cutters, that leaves an ideal pipe end for pushing push-fit connectors on.

Note that flexible connectors don't have same life as copper pipe (that's properly soldered copper pipe, anyway;-)

[Roger Mills]

You're certainly better off cutting out the offending joint and starting again.

If there's room, I would do the following.

Use a cylindrical cutter to cut each pipe a couple of inches or so back from the elbow. Clean up the ends of the remaining pipes with wire wool. Then reassemble, using copper push-fit fittings - so you'll need one elbow, 2 straight couplers and 2 short lengths of 15mm copper pipe. That will be much neater than using a flexible pipe.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Either the solder has failed, or the fitting has gone porous in some way.

Either way, I'd remove it and replace with new. As with all soldering you need to make sure things are clean before proceeding.

[The Medway Handyman]

+1

[F Murtz]

My hard silver soldered joints never leak.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

How do you know it is the soldering that is the problem in this case?

[Dave Liquorice]

"appears" or actually is? Check that the water isn't coming from higher up, failed fibre washer in tap connector? Turn off supply to that section, open tap, dry everything off with kitchen roll, turn on supply, vent air from tap, turn of tap, find the leak, a finger tracing around joints pipes starting at the highest point and frequently checked for wet is good.

The "dangling" nature of the pipe sort of indicates that something is loose, has the pipe partially pulled out of the tap connector?

If it is the yorkshire draining down is simply a matter of turning of the hot supply to the house opening hot tap upstairs and hot tap down stairs...

I'd give it a very careful inspection. Does it look like a dry (as in solder) joint? ie the ring of visible solder each end of the fitting should be smooth, even, complete and whetted to the pipe and fitting. Is there any obvious mark for the leak? You may have to clean up any old flux/lime scale to inspect properly.

Unless it's really bad I'd just reheat have lots of flux on the solder and run more solder in. Allow to cool then test. If that didn't work, cut out and either replace (two couplers and elbow required starts to look messsy) or use a flexi tap connector.

[Syd Rumpo]

If you can get the water out, I'd clean up the fitting and pipe around the joint, over wrap with tinned copper wire a few mm either side, flux and solder.

Then I'd get on my hoss and mosey on out.

Cheers

[F Murtz]

Dont,But nothing leaks near my hard silver soldered joints. :)

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Bet those who make ships with welded hulls say the same too.

[Mr Pounder]

First link. One of those things burst and flooded my kitchen out. It was about 3 years old. The other one was not far off letting go. Both fitted by the guy who did the new kitchen.

[harryagain]

I put some of these in about five years ago. I notice the braid on some of them is rusting. I thought the braid was stainless steel. It's all on the cold water taps. I assume it's caused by condensation.

Best avoided I think even though they're so much quicker to fit than cutting all the pipes to an exact fit.