I just purchased my first home, and the toilet seemed to move a bit
more than I had ever seen. I checked the nuts and they seemed to be
pretty tight, so I emptied the water out of the toilet and lifted up.
Just so happens that the toilet was sitting on the floor without being
anchored to anything. My plan was to get a 4" brass flange, bolt it
down to the concrete, hammer the lead pipe over the flange, and
re-secure the toilet with bolts. I was reading some other posts in
this group which said that the flange should be located on top of the
tile, but I am not sure if I do that if I will have enough excess lead
pipe to seal over the flange. There looks to be about 1/4" between the
concrete and tile. I called a plumber but they wanted around 100-200
to fix this and their plan was to solder the flange to the lead pipe
(not anchoring the flange any other way)
Can anyone offer any suggestions, I was thinking of just getting a
fluidmaster extra thick reinforced wax ring, cutting the little bit of
tile in the way of the flange sitting flush with the concrete, and
screwing the flange into the concrete using Tapcon screws.
To start with, whoever you "just purchased" your first home from should fix
the problem assuming appropriate inspections were done.
That said, you have a couple of options.
If the lead is close enough to the finished floor you could use what we call
a "deep brass flange". It has a brass collar that descends down about an
inch or so below finished floor. Any brass flange you use MUST BE SOLDERED
to the lead. Period.
Or a competent plumber could extend the lead with another lead stub by
flaring the existing stub "inward" and fitting a new section of lead stub
over it, bend the existing back outward against the new, and solder it from
They also make a repair kit that I don't endorse but would be better than
you burning down your house trying to solder stuff you're not qualified to
The advice you got is excellent. Personally, I've run into trouble
when I mount the new flange on top of the tile. There used to be enough
room to do this and not have a problem with the toilet sitting flat on
the floor, but I think they're making them without that tolerance lately.
Fluidmaster makes a very thin steel flange that works on top of the
tile, but you need enough lead on the closet bend to hammer a flare on
the inside of the flange. Now I know this would get me into trouble at
Bob W.'s shop, but I don't bother to solder the lead to the collar.
Since the closet bend in is a concrete slab, the wax ring would make an
What I've also used is a PVC repair collar that reaches several
inches into the closet bend. It comes with a big "O" Ring that makes
the seal. If you use this, you'll need to chip the tile and get the
collar down to the cement level.
And Bob, W., I promise that if I worked for you, you'd love me as a
person, but probably I'd eventually drive you nuts.
I know your a nice guy Mike from reading your posts over the years.
However, think about this. If you don't solder the flange then that leaves
an unsealed joint just below the wax ring. What is stopping the sewer gas
from leaking through that joint and _under_ the flange and into the house?
While it may not leak water, that isn't our only responsibility.
The way I do it, the wax seals against the lead itself. It's
important to bring the lead inside the new collar, and then gently
hammer it in a flare against the inside rim of the collar. The wax sits
directly on the the lead. BTW, I don't use wax rings with horns.
Come to think of it, my way is sort of like the way they installed
toilets when you started in the trade. Way back then, didn't you just
bring the lead up above the floor, hammer it in the shape of a flange,
then attach the toilet with a wax ring and closet screws?? :-)
You know, I'm sometimes the funniest guy I know!
No, I've always used brass flanges _soldered_ to lead bends or stubs.
They're made to go together. Hell, if they weren't meant to be soldered why
not make the flange out of something cheaper?
Anyway, it don't matter because you don't work for me and you aren't trying
to pass a test. Rock on.....
You know, you were supposed to get mad and call me a bunch of names
for implying that you were sooo ancient. You must have gotten a lot of
checks in the mail today to put you into such a good mood.
Oh, BTW, I didn't know the smilely face thingy would appear like
that. I'm very embarrassed.
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