Worth it : integrated heat pump water heater

[Drew Cutter]

Is it worth the money to use a integrated heat pump water heater ? Any mfg. you can recommend on both the heat pump and water heater . Thanks.

[hallerb]

heat pumps work best in areas with moderate temperatures, air heat pumps in northern freezing areas use back up electric resistance heat. thats costly.

what part of the country are you in and how do you currently heat your home and water?

[Drew Cutter]

I'm using gas water heater . From the web page as long as the basement or furnace room stays above 40 degree i'm ok. This heat pump is not out side.

[trader4]

The manufacturer says that tests show it reduced ELECTRIC water heating bills by an average of 50%. Three things worth noting there. One is that it's compared to electric which is costs significantly more to operate in most parts of the country than a gas water heater, which you have. Second, whatever average use was for their test in terms of water amounts could be very different from your personal situation. Third, manufacturers use situations that put their product in the most favorable light for stated numbers like this. So, you may not save anywhere near 50% off your gas bill.

So, can you recover the $1100+ upfront cost for the unit, plus install cost, over the expected life of the unit? Do you have 240V available at the gas water heater location, free breaker panel space for a circuit, etc? What is the expected life? It has a 2 year warranty, which doesn't sound very good to me for a heat pump based device. If you bought a heat pump HVAC system, or a refrigeratior, it would have a longer warranty than that.

It also says it's for electric hot water heaters and to contact the manufacturer if you want to adapt it for gas. That wouldn't make me very comfortable.

[Art Todesco]

Looks like a nice unit. But, besides all the other comments, this unit will probably cool the area where the heater is located. If it is on the back porch, that might be ok, but in a used basement, I wouldn't want it to be cooled. Even in the summer, my Chicago area basement is cold in the summer just from being below grade and having the central air evaporator and air handler there. The one basement register is closed and the only cool air from the AC system is coming from leaks and the cold uninsulated ducts taking on some heat. I certainly wouldn't want it any colder.

[Drew Cutter]

Good arguments for not buying it. I just found out that i have to buy a new furnace next year. Another negative is maintenance. Something like every three months it has to be clean. What are the thought on tankless water heater ?

[scott21230]

I would only consider such a unit if it were part of a geothermal heat pump, not an air type.

[hallerb]

I just found out that i have to buy a

regular tanks standby losses helps heat the home in the winter

while some crow about tankless they often introduce more troubles than they solve. slow arrival of hot water upon turn on, unit must detect water being used, turn on burner and get hot before you get any hot water, no hot water in low flow like valve open just a little to wash hands, cool hot water in areas where incoming water is cold in winter, no hot water at all during power failures, need upgraded gas lines and possibly flue for proper operation, and standby losses of regular tank are really lost during heating season they help heat your home, although during AC use they can add to the heat load some. plus the energy you save will never exceed the higher initial cost of the tankless, espically considering they need regular service.

normal tanks are very reliable and tend to not have technical troubles till they leak.

[Michael Thomas, Paragon Proper]

I have a tankless WH at my home, my office and at 3 of our rental, and I see then doing home inspections here in Chicago. They can work well, but we encountered a LOT of issues when installing them. I have a web page up where I discuss some of the problems we have encountered, and how to avoid them. It also has a link to an OA Smith white paper on calculating the payback of tankless heaters:

[Drew Cutter]

Michael ,

I'm having problems with the numbers supplied by rinnai and rheem . Seems that they purposely use different numbers. How do you compare the numbers to see which is better. Rinnai has better warranties. I will be using a gas tankless system for 2 bathrooms (downstair bathroom is very small , no tub) , upstair bathroom is a walkin shower - soaker tub . Their are times during the year when their are allot people in the house. Right now i'm looking for a system that is capable of handling up to 6 people (kids , wife). Love your web page.

[Michael Thomas, Paragon Proper]

I'd start with by calculating your maximum demand, measure your incoming water temperature after a week of cold winter weather, then look at the various manufacturer's charts of gal/min for the required temp rise to size your unit.

- I'm partial to Takagi as I've have excellent reliability to date as well as utstanding tech support form their field reps, but it's a case of "The devil i know..." - one thing about the Takagis - if you want anything other than 122-124F output, you need to purchase a separate controller.

Michael Thomas Paragon Property Services Inc / Home Inspections, Chicago IL http://www/paragoninspects.com847-475-0468