** Typically, Edison circuits are used to save labor. There isn't a whole lot of price difference between two 2 wire cables or one 3 wire cable, but, if the run is 75 feet from the panel, it can be a real time saver. When I do kitchen counter outlets, I like to run a 3 wire circuit daisy-chained between all the outlets. I stagger the A and B circuits from outlet to outlet, but I have both circuits available at each location, in case there is a need to switch the arrangement.
Wiring second kitchen
Apr 20, 2011
41 Replies
On 4/20/2011 4:49 PM RBM spake thus:
So do you put pull out wires for the opposite side (the side you're
*not* using for that outlet), and connect them together in the box? Guess you'd have to, if you ever wanted to switch circuits later.**Yes, all the wires are spliced with wire nuts, and the outlets are pigtailed to whichever circuit I'm using at each location
This discussion brings up some (interesting) issues:(
Running a business from your home
Installing a second kitchen, in many areas thats not allowed, because it makes your home 2 residences:(
If your getting permits for all this?
Future inspections by health authorties etc?
Space in main panel for expansion?
If OP has a handy knowledgable friend to help him you could do the electrical yourself and learn something while you at it:)
Often there are exceptions made for a mother/daughter apartment, perhaps with a shared entrance, or some such. Like all this stuff, it varies *widely* by jurisdiction.
This seems prudent. In many parts of N.America the fire safety code requires that new elec. wiring requires a building permit and must be installed by an accredited electrician.
Licensed electricians know the answers.
ote:
Agree. If he's pulling permits, then that's the first thing I'd look into before I did anything else to make sure the second kitchen is OK.
Ah, that would work, but I sense a philosophical incongruity with that plan... why attempt to localize ground faults but an overload kills both circuits?
Personally I would still pull 2x 12/2 all the way to the box unless there was a *real* long run.
Based on the OP's mention of having to add "a second panel" I would probably put a 60A or 100A subpanel right near the new kitchen and then use individual circuits from there.
nate
Lots of folks overlook that one. If you are selling food to the public your facility needs to be NSF compliant. So "standard home kitchen" furnishings and equipment won't be acceptable.
Just my suggestion. I would install duplex outlets every 2-3 feet above the counter tops. I would also use a separate circuit for each outlet. That way you don't have to worry about whether the toaster and the coffee maker are on the same circuit. To many people that will seem like over kill, but I think from a convenience stand point it will be well worth it.
Bill
Maybe only licensed professionals should work on wiring? I don't understand some of the resistance (if you will excuse the expression) to Edison circuits.
You can also use separate breakers and a listed handle tie on Edison circuits.
Seems like the "common disconnect" for multiwire branch circuits would make them fairly uncommon for commercial and industrial. I remember a hospital where the vast majority of 120 and 277V circuits were multiwire
3-phase. I can't imagine doing that now if you have to disconnect all the circuits to work on one of them. AFCIs - generally required to be in the panel - also have taken a toll on multiwire branch circuits.
**I suppose that the resistance is mostly from those that want to keep things simple, so they can't easily screw them up. Truth is, with the handle tie and AFCI rules, Edison branch circuits are pretty much a thing of the past.
Ah, that would work, but I sense a philosophical incongruity with that plan... why attempt to localize ground faults but an overload kills both circuits?
** When things are wired properly, overloads are pretty rare, while ground faults and ground fault anomalies are not. I can't tell you how many service calls I've done where the GFCI outlet in the garage caused the master bathroom outlet to go dead. I make a living locating these kind of issues, so I'm not really complaining, but it's pretty distasteful for a customer to have to pay for a service call to have some remote GFCI resetPersonally I would still pull 2x 12/2 all the way to the box unless there was a *real* long run.
** You probably would, unless you did this professionally, for a livingBased on the OP's mention of having to add "a second panel" I would probably put a 60A or 100A subpanel right near the new kitchen and then use individual circuits from there.
nate
** I probably would as well, but with the price of copper today, you kind of have to weigh the cost of one big feeder against a few small cables
You could still use GFCI receptacles with a 20A Edison circuit. (Don't know if it would be a good idea, just saying it would work) At the first box, put a GFCI on one leg with a 12-2 cable going out the LOAD terminals to feed half the downstream outlets. At the second box, do the same thing with the other leg. (if that's too complicated, use a junction box before the first outlet to split the circuit in two.)
The only real advantage is the reduced voltage drop if it's a long run back to the breaker box.
-Bob
I wonder if putting a little 100A subpanel in the new kitchen would be worth the trouble? Instead of running 5 or 6 or 7 new circuits all the way back to the main panel, run one bigass aluminum cable. Then lots of short runs from the new box.
-Bob
Personally I would spend the bucks for copper, and mnimize voltage drops on my side of the meter:)
Paying extra for copper is a one time event. Small in comparision with a new kitchen
An S corporation doesn't do anything to solve getting a business permit, collect state sales tax , permits, updated tax assessment or numerous other possible ordinance violations. There are plenty of small businesses that are sole proprietorships.
Renting commercial space has always been easy. The problem is what it costs and the improvements one has to put in to make it into what one needs. Plus, if the business goes kaput, a lot of what you put into any commercial space is gone. But you still may be stuck with a 3 or 5 year lease.
And also he never said the wife is opening a bake shop. For all we know, she could be baking some cakes for monthly church suppers or cub scout bake sales. Few people would set up an S corp for that.
Well if its a small baking for others it might be better to gut and upgrade the existing kitchen. Make it a real showplace:) adds significant value to the home without generating zoning issues
Personally I would spend the bucks for copper, and mnimize voltage drops on my side of the meter:)
Paying extra for copper is a one time event. Small in comparision with a new kitchen
There wouldn't be any more voltage drop with aluminum than there would be with copper
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