Window Condensaton Redux

[Christopher H. Laco]

Yes, with a stick of insence. I'd say that some of them are, based on the direction of the smoke. But then again, it's hard to tell when you're standing there breathing air and altering the flow of things.

When it's bad, it's just the bottom 3" of the glass, and the metal frame of the glass. This in turn works it's way down between the window and the window frame, and freezes on the window wood, on the frame where the seal is.

It's definatly water rolling down the window and into the opening between the windo and the frame.

I've looked around to find a decent desiccant, usually silica packets, but I'm having a hard time finding such things around here. Is there a specific item or brand you had in mind?

Interestingly enough, almost all of my windows have heat registers below, or right beside them on the outer walls od the rooms.

[Goedjn]

A cloth "snake" stuffed with dried rice ought to work, although you might have to change it periodically. If the root of the problem is cold air leaking around the bottom of the window and chilling the immediate area to below the dew-point, that should help with that, to, although adding weatherstripping or even taking a hair-dryer to the rubber seals might work better. Try cutting some dowels to jam between the top of the window and the lower sash, to shove the thing down harder against the sill, maybe?

[Christopher H. Laco]

No, I don't think it's that style of window. The removable has a big rubber gasket on the back of it to seal the window pocket between it and the outer pane. In that pocket there are 4 weep holes, 2 top, 2 bottom.

True. And that's where the mystery starts. Whether the heat is up, or down, or whether the humidity is high, or low in the how, the condensation happens, and without much of a pattern.

I don't think it's that kind of window. If I removed the internal removable pane, there would be 4 big weep holes in there to let my hot air out, or the cold our in, and yes, only the single pane on the outside, bound uner the vinyl exterior.

In fact, here it is...pre 2005 removable glass casements...

[Christopher H. Laco]

You know, I've heard the one of the things Pella service tries somethings is bending the sash clips to make the window fit tighter. The one thing I've always felts was that the sash lock handles never did a good job of drawing the window into the frame.

[m Ransley]

You state the outer pane is half as thick as the interior removable pane. If you had dualpane anywhere you would notice a metal strip separating the 2 panes, giving you a tri pane. This condensation issue may be basicly normal for that design if the seals are poor. Without Low E argon sealed units you are probably R2 vs R 3.3 for sealed units. You have a 10 year warranty, I`ve had seals replaced for free on new Pellas, call the window company it seems to be a window issue not a true high humidity issue. Even sealed Low E argon Pellas consumer reports rated poor in condensation. A window rating overlooked by 99% of the people is CDF Condensing Factor, Windows and glass are not made equal as most people think.

[Christopher H. Laco]

Next available Pella serivce date: December 5th. :-/

I would give my kindom just for a pattern..windows that consistantly have the problem; but it's so touch and go it seems.

[nicksanspam]

That outdoor air might contain less moisture, if it's cooler than house air.

Nick

[Chris Lewis]

You have to be a bit careful with designating Pella glass type. The removable pane shouldn't really be counted, because for the most part all it does is protect the interior blind or whatever from physical damage, and it has relatively little insulation value. It's not sealed very well, and the glass-glass gap is too big.

What really matters is what the non-removable glass in the sash is. We're looking at Pellas now, and as far as we've been looking, the options for that are two layer thermopane with low-E or three layer thermopane with one or two low-E layers.

We're trying to match some existing non-treated triple thermopane, and the modern low-E double thermopane is equivalent.

If you're getting condensation when the interior conditions wouldn't suggest it, I'd strongly suspect stale air near the windows. There's a reason why they put heaters/heat venting below windows...

The removable panes would accentuate the condensation problems - leaks new moist air, but it doesn't circulate very fast.

We have no intention whatsoever to equip our windows with removable panes.

Try taking them off and see what happens.

[Chris Lewis]

Actually, that (Designer type) is exactly the kind of window I was referring to. Didn't realize that it had weeping holes. Tho, that's not entirely unusual in other kinds, even without an inner barrier (some sorts of sashless sliders for example);.

If you have single pane on those, no wonder they have a condensation problem.

We've decided for other reasons to not go with these. Looks like we're going for Loewens.

[Christopher H. Laco]

The experimentation has begun. I snagged some 1/4 weatherstripping and did the worst window upstairs. I'll give it acouple days. When that proves to be useless, I'll move on to the next thing: shrinkwraping that window.

Plenty of time to experiment between now and December 5th when the Pella guy get's here.

[JJ]

Casement Windows are lousy. Get a box of Mortite Weatherstrip & Caulking Cord to seal the air leaks. Follow instructions.

[Christopher H. Laco]

The experiment continues. The weatherstripping didn't make a difference. That rules out bad frame seal/air leak.

It did point out something interesting on that window, and possibly others. As I mentioned before, it appears that condensation dripped down the glass into the space between the fram/window, and froze on the window frame/frame/seal.

Well, in the early am during the peak condensation time, the frame and weatherstripping was dry, but there was water on the metal sash below that point when the window was opened. That's curious. There shouldn't be wter there. Hopefully something will turn up when they inspect them from the outside.

For my next trick, the plastic window wrap, and possibly leaving the bedroom doors open (I'll have to get some pet/kid gates).

-=Chris