What does it take to freeze pipes?

[Charles Pisano]

The home is near the poconos. It is a new construction with a solid pour basement. The only thing I'm worried about is a rise (of 10 feet or so) where the supply comes from the street into the house, turns from plastic in the street to 3/4 inch copper in the house and goes up to the basement ceiling. I've insulated this section to the MAX ( but no heat tape). But the builders guy said I may have insulated it 'from' any heat source.

There is no relief valve on this 10 foot rise to drain it. And I don' have a compressor up here yet. The rest of it I can gravity drain. No problem shutting the water at the street. I tried leaving the heat off for a couple of cooler days recently. It went down to only 60 in the house at night on a night when it was 40 outside (and it was 60 that day). Being new constr. and well built, it keeps the heat in effectivly. So, I'm thinking it wont take much heat to keep it at say 55. And I could shut off the water and drain as a precaution.

It can get cold in this part of the world (extreme lows to -10 possible, but rare) Highs in Jan and Feb are usually 25 to 30 degrees above with lows going to 5 to 20 above are not unusual (last year they had a very warm winter, with most lows only in the 30's). But it's not as cold as upstate NY.

We are in a valley type setting (no wind) and the house is shielded on the east by a mountain. The basement has a register for the heat to come out and the home has an elec. heat pump. All the pipes are inside and NOT exposed at all. All the windows are double pane with the argon gas between.

I'm thinking if it costs me over 300 for the heat for 6 months, I might as wel have a plumber do it the first time and shut it down..???

[dpb]

If the supply line is buried deep enough so it doesn't freeze outside, if turn supply off (I presume the supply valve is before this vertical section) and leave taps open and drain what you can there should be plenty of expansion room even if it does freeze partially. Of course, since it's copper, it shouldn't be at all hard to sweat a drain location in there to remove the standing column.

[Charles Pisano]

Thanks. Sorry for the long post. But that's what I was thinking. The (inside main) shut off is up a half a foot from the bottom. And the supply is below the frost line and then some as the home is graded steeply front to back and it comes in at the front. And as I said I have it wrapped to the max..(was going to put heat tape in this section, but it comes too close to plastic drain line to be done safley)..

I'm also thinking that since the plastic supply line is coming down such a steep hill it will push enough water through when the street valve is off and the lowest faucet is opened that will also leave plenty room to push backwards if needed.

I still don't get the comments the builder made about sheetrock freezing and the studs freezing. Never heard of that one. If anything, I would think low humidity and the cold would be good for anything that ails a home except the plumbing of course... Even my H.O. policy says it's not a problem to drain the lines and leave the house if leaving for a while in the winter. But I'm going to read the 10 year warranty I was given with the house to be sure..

I might try to borrow a smallish compressor from a neighbor who I was talking to about it. I'm not sure, but what PSI should I set it at? And I guess I can get an adapter from a plumbing supply to hook up the outside bib to it? But even if I do will it help blow out this (vertical) section? I'm thinking no, cause the outside faucet that I'll be hooking to is just after it....??

Thanks CP

[Charles Pisano]

Here is the section where it begins to rise. As you can see it has a shut off there before the meter (not in pic) that is above this. There is another shut off after the meter and a pressure reg. somewhere in the mix. I have it wrapped up tight all the way up and then some. I figure if I shut it off here it can expand back into the street as it will have some room that way and then I will leave the shut off that is 'after' the meter open so it can expand that way like you said..

You can see it is so close to these drain lines that adding heat tape would have been ANOTHER worry.

Wonder if I should close that drain line shut off (also in pic) ? The sump will be powered off and pumped down, so I'm not sure how that will affect anything if there is the odd chance of a sewer back up... When I come back, THAT would be something I would forget to UNDO..

[mm]

Friends moved into a new townhouse, or house, in Herndon VA, near Dulles, and the builder had put a riser in the kitchen next to the back door on the wrong side of the insulation. I don't know how cold it got, or if they were out of town at all -- He's a college professor, it wasn't sabbatical and I'm sure he was there for all but at most 2 weeks -- but the first winter a pipe broke inside the wall. Did some flooding but I don't remember how much. My friend wasn't upset, but then he rarely is.

[jJim McLaughlin]

With copper pipe, why would you assume that a leak is in the offing? Copper is a very good piping material, better, IMHO tahn galvanizedor any of the PVCs.

[Rich256]

He is worried about freezing. Copper probably breaks just as easily if not easier than other pipes when the water in them freeze. When the unit is not going to be attended for months it is best to at least turn off the water. If willing to take the risk of freezing he might forget about the draining. Like my neighbors I have a lawn sprinkler system. They all have their lines blown out each year. I turn off the water but don't blow them out. Instead take the risk that the lines might freeze. Never had a problem. But repair is not all that difficult anyway.