"John Grabowski" wrote in message news:tJVFe.14$ snipped-for-privacy@fe11.lga...
The way mine works is, you remove the branch wire from the breaker and connect to the box, which goes to the Common of a dpdt switch. The NC of that switch goes to the regular breaker, so normally everything works as before. The NO goes to the generator. Flip the switch and power come from the generator instead of the power company. Thus, there is no possible way to ever switch the generator output to the power company wiring. Barring severe damage, it's foolproof. I have 12 ckts on mine; that's plenty to run everything I might need in an emergency situation. Oh, it's also got an overcurrent breaker in case too muich power's drawn, as does the generator also. Nothing but breakers, so it's a pretty simple design. There's also a current meter for each leg of the incoming split phase power so you can see how balanced the thing is on your generator. It's convenient for testing periodically too, since you just flip on the switches you need to create your load. It's not even necessary to touch the main breaker. Transfer switches make lots of sense. The more expensive ones will even start the generator for you, and switch everything over, automatically. But I ain't that rich & don't mind flipping a switch & pushing a button to start the generator.
John, in doing some research I found that the biggest fear of most is that the main breaker may fail while in the off position thus still allowing power flow as if it were still on. I suppose that this cenario is still possible with an interlock kit. Is this right?
Pop, I don't have either switch at the moment, but don't I have to do both of the steps you listed regardless of which switch I get? With a cutoff, I go outside, throw the cutoff and lock it down. Then connect the generator and turn on the circuits that I want. With a transfer switch, I have to turn the main switch on the transfer switch from utility to generator, connect the generator and select the circuits that I want to run. Did I miss something? Aren't I doing the same steps regardless of what switch I choose?
Another problem I'm facing is that the breaker box in my house is in a confined area, barely wider than the box itself. I won't have any place in the immediate area to install the transfer switch. From all ads I've seen, the harness is only about 2'. The wall that the breaker box backs up to is the breakfast area, so Wifey won't be thrilled about that. Any ideas?
"rh455" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@no-mx.homeplot.com...
===> Not addressed to me, but ... I have to wonder how a mains breaker could "fail" while it's in the off position. Some of them take a man and a boy just to set them on. What would be the "failure" mechanism they are worried about? I can't see a Mains breaker either turning ON spontaneously, or mechanically failing so it can't be turned back on, being much of a worry. The biggest "danger" in my opinion, is always that the wrong person might discover the breaker and flip it from ignorance, or a child playing in there, neither of which should be easy to do. "Should" being the operative word.
===> I think that depends on your local codes, not my descrip; please read on.
With a
===> OK, that totally disconnects the entire house, which is practical and totally acceptable. Now nothing can go into the power lines as long as the switch was the right type and design. So, I agree.
Then connect
===> The generator is always connected. In my (and most others I know of) case, the generator can be left plugged in. The only caveat is that, by code here at least, there must be a "quick disconnect" provided for the generator. That's so the power company, police, fire, etc. can quickly disconnect power if there is a generator running. So I was told, anyway. My generator isn't literally connected all the time though, per sae. I often load it onto a trailer to haul around for the occasional job where I need poertable power. It's only an 8,000 watt generator (surge, I forget the steady run wattage at the moment). In the summer it's not connected since it's so seldom needed. Soon's the winter weather comes though, I put it in its little compartment, plug it in, fuel it etc, and plug it in for the duration. So, I may or may not have to plug it in. To use it, I just roll it out of its little "house", push the start button, and let 'er rip soon's it's warmed up a bit. But, point is, if your setup were good enough, you'd never even have to disconnect it. Its output isn't connected to anything because of the transfer switch.
With a transfer
===> No. There is no Mains switch other than the breakers on the generator.
connect the generator and select the circuits
===> Yes, you would have to do that. My transfer switch has 8 ckts, one of which is a 220V pair for the well pump (we're rural). The other 6 go for furnace, fridge, two for lights, one for the bedroom outlets, and the last one to the basement lighting. If I need to run the pump periodically I have to be sure the fridge and furnace aren't running, but that's an acceptable situation for me since I can't afford a bigger generator. It takes the pump about two minutes or so to build up the pressure tank and then I turn it off; that's plenty for occasional drinking water and a couple of toilet flushes, plus it protects the water heater. It's only REAL intent is to keep the house from freezing and lit up for saftey/protection. The rest is just gravy so that we can stay here if the power goes out for an extended period of time, which has happened twice since we got it, the worst being in '98.
Did I miss something? Aren't I doing the same steps
===> Sort of, but no, not quite. I apologize for breaking up your paras like that, but I thought it might be easier than trying to dispute or agree to things that might interact. I don't consider the "number" of actions as important as I do the simplicity and reliability of the actions to be taken. eg, it doesn't matter whether the generator is plugged in or not. My transfer switch has no mains breaker; just "replacement" breakers to my breakre box for the generator to use. The "switches" in the transfer switch are actually individual breakers. You cannot use them like you would alight switch, but they are designed to be turned on and off without becoming damaged as the breakers in your box might do.
===> True, the harness is short and best installed next to your breaker/fuse box. But, when you get into the instructions, you'll find I think, instructions to extend it, including the wire gage and current capacities, wire lengths, etc. for extension. So, that harness can be extended. My location isn't as cramped as yours, but I still chose to add about 6 feet to the harness. I used a box with clampdowns to splice the wires, and ran them up to the breaker box thru another piece of metal conduit. Actually, since the transfer switch wiring (in my case at least) consists of stranded wire in that harness, it's my opinion that they assume you'll extend it. If you've ever worked with stranded wire that size, you'll know what I mean ! I extended it with appropriately sized solid wire.
I forget whether it's "emergen" (no quotes) or something close to that, but try googling on that and see if you don't come across a transfer switch web site. If that doesn't work, come back and ask me for the web site. I'd just give it now, but I'm disabled and at the moment it would be sort of a hardship to get out there to find it. Aha! Found it:
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the web site entry is at:
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They give a pretty good description that might help with understanding what i'm talking about.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned: You also need to earth your generator to the house earth connection. I think that's shown on that page, too. Safety reasons, obviously.
===> Your comments are correct of course, but what a person sees when he approaches mine is "Transfer Switch" on the label. In many parlance it's common to call a "box" of something by the singular form; thus I suppose a "box" of transfer switches is "a" transfer switch. Google for "tansfer switch" and you won't get the individual 3-position (or 2 position) switches, you'll get a bunch of sites calling a "box" of transfer switches a transfer switch, singular. It just makes sense and is logical. I have a feeling we're on opposite sides of the high\\low voltage equation?
One can go as far as they wish with definitions, but it's generally best to go with what is "common" or "perceived" usages. If someone asks you what a transfer switch is, you're probably going to continue describing dtdt, dptt, tptt and so on, but it would have served no purpose to the post, IMO. But I would describe it as a box with a set of switches to isolate your generator from the mains lines. Which is by far more accurate than trying to describe one of the internal switches, in view of the current usage.
So, I'm at a loss as to just what the heck you are trying to communicate in your post. Were you adding to, subtracting from, or otherwise trying to correct/revise something I said? You did address it specifically to me, so it has to be my post your are referring to. If so, come out and say it. I'm not aware that I gave any bad advice to the posters, so if there's something wrong, be specific.
rh455 wrote: > John, in doing some research I found that the biggest fear of most is > that the main breaker may fail while in the off position thus still > allowing power flow as if it were still on. I suppose that this cenario > is still possible with an interlock kit. Is this right? >
That is a straw man put forward in an attempt to answer those who say that they would never forget to open the main first. I don't see a failure of a main breaker in the closed position as at all likely. What I do see as likely is that the user will be tired, stressed out, drunk, or elsewhere. If the user is elsewhere then their no it all teenage child, fed up with no power wife, or ever so helpful neighbor will attempt to use a system were a single mistake in two separate operations will cause injury of death. With the interlock kit and a fixed male inlet there is no way to make a deadly mistake with a suicide cord or a back feed to the outside utility lines. In forty years of electric work I have never seen a main breaker fail closed. I have however seen more than a dozen of them fail open or unable to reset after opening on repeated overloads.
To overcome your limited space you can mount a SquareD rain tight, feed through panel out doors between the meter and the point of entry of the service conductors. That panel will contain the interlock kit. It will also provide you an outdoor source for air conditioning, well pump, outbuildings, jacuzzi, or any other outside load. The flanged inlet; such as the one shown at ; can be mounted right at the feed through panel. That will put your generator operation all in one place.
If your home has any form of dual metering such as for off peak use of AC or heating then you need to have the installation checked by an electrician experienced in emergency power installations to eliminate any possible sneak current paths between the two meters via equipment served by both.
You won't have to select the circuits as long as you don't turn on too much load there will be no problem.
-- Tom Horne
"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use." Thomas Alva Edison
Pop What you are calling a transfer switch is a transfer panel that contains a number of transfer switches. I don't make that distinction to split hairs but rather to point out that a transfer switch is simpler to operate and provides more flexibility in which loads you can run. A transfer panel offers better control but less flexibility in load selection.
Each of the switches in a transfer panel is a transfer switch that controls a single load or circuit. One advantage of that arrangement is that you can transfer the selected loads and still leave some load connected to the utility to indicate the return of public power. Another advantage is that you greatly limit the likelihood of overloading the generator to the point were it's Over Current Protective Device opens and darkens the whole house again.
A double throw switch, or a pair of single throw switches that are interlocked, which controls the entire supply to the home allows you to run any load in the home up to the limit of the generators capacity.
-- Tom Horne
"This alternating current stuff is just fad. It is much too dangerous for general use." Thomas Alva Edison
Pop What he means is, a transfer switch panel and a master transfer switch are similar, but the "panel" transfers power to the circuits from the generator/utility. A transfer "switch" is one large switch in the main line that transfers power to the whole breaker box from the generator/utility instead of individual circuits. That's the point. You can get a transfer panel to power selected circuits or a general switch to backfeed the whole board which in my case is much more convienent for me.
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