Tile over paper backing

[lls8000]

I'm planning to tile a kitchen/dining room area. When I removed the existing vinyl, it didn't come up clean. There is a layer of paper that is firmly attached to the .25" plywood with gummy adhesive. Any idea's on how to get the surface clean? Do I need to get down to the plywood, or can I tile right over the remainder of this paper backing? I have a few places where I'll be leveling the floor, but for the most part, it's level and solid. Thanks, LLS

[RicodJour]

I'd take up the 1/4" plywood and lay down backer board before tiling. The kitchen is usually the highest traffic area in the house and any weakness in the installation will lead to broken tile and PIA repairs.

R

[buffalobill]

also have ready: what type of construction, and where are your moisture concerns.

see manufacturers website regarding installation:

general info 52 pages of general info at:

[bambam]

The long answer is that plywood is an acceptable substrate for tile. But deflection, that is, "the give" in the floor is a real concern. That is what will cause grout and even tiles to crack or lift. You can google it if you want an even longer answer.

Here, the rule of thumb is that the substrate must be at least one and one quarter inches thick -- generally half inch plywood underlayment over three quarter inch sub floor.

One thing you might want to be sure of is the join between the tile floor and the flooring in the rest of the house. The tile will be a quarter inch higher than the vinyl was ... and you'll be adding another quarter of an inch in height if you follow Rico's suggestion of replacing the quarter inch plywood with backer board ... as I would you to do.

HTH a bit.

Ken

[Cliff Hartle]

You don't say what kind of tile you are putting back down. Most people here think ceramic when you say just tile.

If its vinyl then the floor has to be absolutely smooth. You may be able to put ceramic down, but we would need more info.

[lls8000]

In the original post, I had said that the floor is solid. The joists are 16" OC, and there is 1" plywood, and .25" plywood. I have no moisture concerns; there is a full basement under the house. The tile is actually porcelain. Maybe I'll replace the .25" of plywood, just to be safe, that will give me a clean surface - That's my greatest concern at this point. Thanks for the responses! LLS

[thetiler]

Someone writes: "The long answer is that plywood is an acceptable substrate for tile........"

Only exterior grade, or CDX plywood is acceptable for tile. Since the poster is removing vinyl from 1/4" plywood, it's probably smooth, thin plywood that is traditionally used under vinyl, and is the wrong type to receive tile. Other backerboards would be a better choice in a kitchen

As has been said, you need 1 1/4" of solidly glued and screwed subfloor if you want a long lasting job.

I've seen many DIY'ers tile over that thin smooth plywood and it doesn't last. Generally too it's not bonded very well over the subfloor, as it doesn't need to be for vinyl.

thetiler