We have a oil-fired boiler that generates both the hot water and the heat
for the house. My wife is opening a daycare, and per state regulations, we
need to have the hot water at the tap be 120 degrees or less. While I'm
sure it's possible to regulate the temp of the entire system, I can see
problems with simply turning the whole thing down. (e.g. 20 below zero
So, I'm thinking there must be some kind of valve that does this sorta thing
automagically. Turns out, I'm right - I did a little research, and lo and
behold, I found "Thermostatic Mixing Valves". The perfect thing for my
Then, I saw the price - they're pretty dear! The cheapest I could find was
right around $100, which seems exorbitant for what it is. Which got me to
thinking - why can't I simply throw in a couple of check valves, and a ball
valve that controls how much cold gets mixed with the hot? The sum total of
the parts would be about 20 bucks. What am I missing here?
You're missing several things. The boiler temp is going to fluctuate. If you
set it low, people will complain about not enough hot water. If you set it
high enough, there's a chance of a little kid getting burnt, and you getting
sued. For a licensed day care, they probably have to be inspected, and that
should be one of the things they check. Don't try to be cheap. There's a
reason for those industrial type tempering valves.
I am sure that the parents of the children that they are leaving in your
care would love to know this.
One day, somewhere, some kids gonna get scalded due to some cheap assholes
failure to do what was right to maintain a business (if you can call a
daycare out of ones home a legitimate business) and this old post of yours
will be drug up for an example of why those of us with half a mind wont use
a home based daycare.
I am taking the proper precautions. I did not understand all of the issues
at hand. Which is why I posted here - I asked a question to a group that
knows more than I do, and got the information I needed. And a hearty
helping of abuse and commentary, which is always helpful.
I think they'd love to know that I'm actually taking precautions so that
their kids don't get hurt.
I asked, I got advice, and will be installing a thermostatic valve. The
price struck me as high, but I didn't understand why. Now I do. How, pray
tell, does this make me a cheap asshole? How does asking for advice from
people who know better, and then taking it, make me a cheap asshole?
Explain that to me?
How is that not a "legitimate business"? We pay taxes on the income, are
regulated by the state, pay an accountant to do the books, we've got a
website, business cards and paperwork, we've even got a fucking sign out
front. Because we didn't pay a sign shop for the sign and a printer for the
business cards, we're illegitimate? Because some large corporation doesn't
dole out our paychecks? Because we actually care about doing it right, and
aren't just in this for the money? Bill Gates started out of his garage,
peckerhead. We've all gotta start somewhere.
Did you even read my post? I'm taking the advice. I said I was _HOPING_ to
get away cheap. Turns out I can't. Reading comprehension isn't your strong
Right... Because a concientious individual couldn't possibly take better
care of your kids than a business that pays their employees sweatshop labor
rates and has higher turnover rate than the fast food industry. And because
they live in the space that they work in, it's almost certainly going to be
filthy and dangerous, right? And because we'll be feeding somebody elses
kids along with our own, we're only going to feed them the cheapest,
nastiest grade ZZZ crap we can find, instead of healthy food.
You sir, are a thoughtless asshole that knows not of what he speaks. You
might know something about HVAC stuff, but childcare, on the other hand...
Wife here... less angry than the husband with your ahole reply.
Yes I think they would love to know that we are frugal with our expenses and
are not planning on going out of business any time soon. And that he took
adequate care to find out what people who know would say. We live in a rural
community. Plenty of people around here appreciate what can be done with
ingenuity. You see tractors repaired with zip ties and duct tape all the
time. Certainly we are not going to do anything unsafe.
Unlikely since we have no plan to put any children at risk of scalding. Many
people chose not to use home based daycare for concerns similar to yours. Of
course, they don't choose to live in rural towns and plan on having their
children attend the local school, since there is no daycare center here.
There are certainly home based daycares I would never send my children to.
And then there are terrific ones. I support your right to choose whatever
daycare makes you feel most comfortable that your children are safely cared
for in an engaging, loving environment.
There are some benefits to either choice. The primary benefit to a home
daycare is continuity of care with the same provider. In a center, children
are cared for by ever changing people, whether due to staff turn over or
moving from one age group to the next. Usually the caregives stay with the
age group or "room" and the children move on. In a home, the provider
remains the same as the children grow, providing the opportunity to really
get to know each other and feel safe and comfortable.
Anyway I felt like giving my point of view. Ciao.
How about one of these?
http://www.kingsolar.com/catalog/mfg/watts/4a818.html (1/2 inch)
http://www.kingsolar.com/catalog/mfg/watts/70a.html (3/4 inch)
Further googling for "tempering valve" will probably get you even
I think a "tempering valve" may be inadequate for the task, although I
don't know the terminology very well. The specifications sheet of the
Watts 70a (the second option above) says:
WATTS HOT WATER EXTENDER TEMPERING VALVES CANNOT BE USED FOR TEMPERING
WATER TEMPERATURE AT FIXTURES. SEVERE BODILY INJURY (i.e., SCALDING
OR CHILLING) AND/OR DEATH MAY RESULT DEPENDING UPON SYSTEM WATER
PRESSURE CHANGES AND/OR SUPPLY WATER TEMPERATURE CHANGES. A.S.S.E.
STANDARD 1016 LISTED DEVICES SUCH AS WATTS MODELS L111 OR MMV SHOULD
BE USED AT FIXTURES TO PREVENT POSSIBLE INJURY. The WATTS hot water
tempering valves are designed to be installed at or near the boiler or
hot water heater. They are not designed to compensate for system
pressure and/or temperature fluctuations and should not be used where
devices tested to A.S.S.E. standard 1016 are required. These WATTS
valves should never be used to provide "anti-scald" or "anti-chill"
In our area a thermostatic mixing valve is REQUIRED for nursing home
and child care facilities. Nothing else will do. Having installed and
serviced such valves for larger facilities, $100.00 does seem CHEAP.
You should see what a 2" valve costs! Thou$ands of dollars! And they
have to be tested regularly too!
Any idea what kind of lifespan these things have?
On the other hand, would I be better off simply turning down the boiler?
Can this even be done?
Or would I be better off simply installing a water heater?
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