Termites!! Taking advantage of exposed base plate (inside)

[Stellijer]

In my home in Florida, I'm doing some floor work. I'm now at the stage where there's no carpet and no baseboards.

Now, the nut of the question at hand. I have had some small termite problems as many wood frame houses in FL have. The damage appears to be minimal; just some nibbling along the base plate as far as I can see. The walls feel solid if you bang on them. There are no signs of active termites there. I have placed termite baits outside the house.

What I'm looking for are some opinions about the best courses of action to treat for termites given my exposed bottoms of my walls. Spraying into the crack under the drywall with some termite spray seems an obvious course of action. I can actually spray the very bottom of the frame now, which is an opportunity. The question is, WHICH termite spray would be the best for this application? It would ideally be something which would soak into the wood, last for a long time, and deter termites from progressing up the wall.

Another thing I could potentially do is drill holes in the bottom of the wall where the baseboards will cover. Again, I want to take advantage of the situation. I could drill into the bottom of the wall and spray foam or whatever into the cavity in the wall, cover it up with a little spackle, then when the baseboards are replaced you'd never be able to tell. My question here is, again, WHAT chemical would I use? Additionally, is there anything WORTH the effort of the holes in the wall or would spraying the bottom of the wall under the drywall do just as well?

I'm open to any other options you may have. I wish to deliver as hard a punch to these creatures as possible before I finish my flooring job. What is most effective, both chemical and method?

Thanks!!!!

[Lar]

In article , [e-mail] says... :) What I'm looking for are some opinions about the best courses of action to treat :) for termites given my exposed bottoms of my walls. Spraying into the crack :) under the drywall with some termite spray seems an obvious course of action. I :) can actually spray the very bottom of the frame now, which is an opportunity. :) The question is, WHICH termite spray would be the best for this application? It :) would ideally be something which would soak into the wood, last for a long time, :) and deter termites from progressing up the wall. :) :) Assuming it is a slab construction, in that situation applying liquid borates, something like Tim-Bor will be the longest lasting product to use, though in that situation it might help with general pest but not for termite activity due to you will be applying it to only one side of the sill and it will be on the side where termites won't be coming up, by creating holes in the sheet rock you will be able to saturate more of the sill getting it on more of the key areas at risk. If using a professional is an option, the most effective protection you can do is to have at least the perimeter treated with one of the non repellant termiticides. Termidor is the first choice, phantom the second.

[Stellijer]

Lar wrote

Thanks. I imagine I could shoot it up in the wall a bit; not sure how well it would get to the vertical studs. However, would it being soaked into the sill tend to repel the termites from going up and along the wall? My thought is that if something can be inserted into the wall which is a repellant, then the termites would avoid the lower part of the wall altogether, preventing them from entering, at least there. The "mothball" concept. Is that what Trim-bor does?

Thanks for the tip :-)

Sounds like it.

Yes. The new flooring will raise the baseboards by about 1" and the baseboards are already nearly 3" high. Even at that, technically I could drill up at an angle, somewhat, to keep the hole as low as possible. If the hole was just large enough to accomodate the tube used to spray, there should be minimal leakage. Anyway,. I don't believe I have a double base plate so I only need to get about 2" off the slab to cover it.

Can you also spray trim-bor on the surface of plywood sheathig to protect it?

Is it that the chemical is substandard or that the foam itself doesn't effectively cover the wood?

Too bad they couldn't mix insulation foam (e.g. Great Stuff) with termite borate, so it will also seal the gaps, shore up the wood from any termite damage and help insulate the wall at the same time! :-)

Yeah; I was thinking of expanding foam which goes in like either soap suds or spray-in insulation. Extra thick liquid is not particularly worth it.

Since "sudzing" is just a construct anyway, no one can criticize how you spell it :-)

Is it that you need a license to even purchase the stuff?

I have nothing against a professional treatment as long as it's not some of the insane prices I've seen for "wholistic" termite treatments.

So it's like a bait of a sort?

It makes common sense to me not to use repellant types of insecticides on the outside of or all around the house for the reasons you cite. Currently I'm just concerned about making sure they don't come back to the areas I know they've been seen; and while they may have to go elsewhere, that at least would take TIME for them to get in there and hopefully a good outside treatment would take care of the colony et all long before any new damage could be done.

I don't think I've seen any termites other than subterraneans around here. The only areas where there was any evidence of termites had the little mud tubes.

Which it is (it's about 15), and I believe the sill is PT since I never saw extensive damage on it. In fact I've found where it looks like the termites were primarily coming from; not inside the wall but chewing up a door frame (which is going to be a pain to fix without removing the whole damn frame and having to re-set the double door). My main fear is having them get into the frame of the house which could be devastating. I'm hoping to stop their progress at least along their known paths. If I can keep them out hopefully when they go for other sources they will go for baited material.

BTW, what do you think of those supposed termite bait woodchips you can put around your shrubs? Sounds like a good idea in a way but could be dangerous in luring new termites too close to the house.

Also, is there any way to "bait" existing wood so that if they eat it they kill the whole colony? Or does trim-bor do that?

Thanks for all your adivce!!!!

[Lar]

In article , [e-mail] says... :) :) :) Thanks. I imagine I could shoot it up in the wall a bit; not sure how well it :) would get to the vertical studs. However, would it being soaked into the sill :) tend to repel the termites from going up and along the wall? My thought is that :) if something can be inserted into the wall which is a repellant, then the :) termites would avoid the lower part of the wall altogether, preventing them from :) entering, at least there. The "mothball" concept. Is that what Trim-bor does?

Unfortunately it will pretty much only protect what is sprayed. And even if every stud and all the sill was exposed for treatment the little buggers could still run their tubes up the foundation into the wall, up the back side of the wood veneer and find themselves to the untreated rafters. What you are wanting to do is added protection but not a solution. :) :) Can you also spray trim-bor on the surface of plywood sheathig to protect it?

yes it will, the area that is sprayed :) :) :) > I have never been impressed with foam applications :) :) Is it that the chemical is substandard or that the foam itself doesn't :) effectively cover the wood?

It is the foam itself that is the problem, any termiticide can be mixed in the foam. Just thought of a product seen at walmart/home depot. Terminate foam application for termites. May work for your needs but don't know how cost effective it will be. You may want to try buying a can to test the results first. And then again I would be surprised if you got a years protection even in the areas protected from the elements.

:) > Unfortunately the Termidor (and Phantom) would have :) > to be applied by a professional, and not all of :) > them are :) > able to use them.

:) Is it that you need a license to even purchase the :) stuff?

It is restricted use products and the company/buyer has to also be certified through them to be able to buy it.

:) I have nothing against a professional treatment as long as it's not :) some of the insane prices I've seen for "wholistic" termite treatments.

An 1800-2000 sq foot home can run anywhere from $750- $1200. I will do a minimum treatment with Termidor and still warrant the whole house which can knock another $200-$300 off. I am sure if you were to look around you probably could find a local company to do the same. The one benefit with the Termidor is that it is pretty much idiot proof, works that good.

:) > The Termidor for example not only kills the :) > termites getting into the product but they are spreading :) > the product throughout the colony, without pushing the :) > insects to other areas.

:) So it's like a bait of a sort?

It is generically referred to as a liquid bait, but it isn't. Foraging termites feed on it and will get it on them and as they interact with other termites they spread the chemical to the next, then in turn termite #2 spreads it to a third and so on. The active ingredient is the same as what is used for flea control in Frontline.

:) It makes common sense to me not to use repellant types of insecticides on the :) outside of or all around the house for the reasons you cite. Currently I'm just :) concerned about making sure they don't come back to the areas I know they've :) been seen; and while they may have to go elsewhere, that at least would take :) TIME for them to get in there and hopefully a good outside treatment would take :) care of the colony et all long before any new damage could be done.

The surest thing you should do is make sure you have 6 inches of exposed foundation showing for easy inspection. Since you have had issues already with termites I would be concerned about the bath trap areas if they have never been treated.

:) can keep them out hopefully :) when they go for other sources they will go for baited material.

:) BTW, what do you think of those supposed termite bait woodchips you can put :) around your shrubs? Sounds like a good idea in a way but could be dangerous in :) luring new termites too close to the house. Termites find their food randomly they don't detect a meal and head to it. That is one of the downfalls to the baiting. They may find the baits and they may instead still find your house with baits just inches away. I haven't look into the baited chips, but once again they may or may not timely find it and when they feed on them they should kill those termites and a few they in turn feed, but it won't be a colony control

:) Also, is there any way to "bait" existing wood so that if they eat it they kill :) the whole colony? Or does trim-bor do that?

I am guessing you have baited with terminate stakes. You can place wood in various parts of the yard and around the house and when you get termite activity there place a terminate stake in their path. You should get some kills and stop the activity in a few days, but it will only effect a small percentage of the colony.

[RamblinOn]

clipped

You would be well advised to study up on termites (species prevalent in your area) and the methods used to CONTROL them before you load your home with poison. Get a couple of licensed, reputable contractors to inspect the home and take it from there. You could probably strip the drywall from the wall in question, spray all surfaces of the wood framing and still get termites. They don't eat on the surface of the wood, they come into the end grain most commonly and leave at least a paper-thin layer of the surface. They can get through openings for plumbing and minute cracks.

The kind of wood that is "appealing" is anything made of cellulose - wood, paper, cardboard, etc. PT lumber, at least outdoors, doesn't stop termites - it only delays them. They are everywhere, and if there has ever been wood growing on your ground, there is probably at least some dead wood (stumps, etc.) being slowly recycled by nature's cleaner-uppers :o)

How long have you had "trickles" of swarming? Ever find wings dropped around openings, such as door and window sills? Any blistered looking wallboard around openings? Tap baseboards around doorways and see if any are hollow sounding. Live in warm climate?

There are useful things you can do to prevent termites, such as keeping at least 6-8" of space between soil and wood plates, keep vegetation away from wood parts of building, keeping wood sealed up and painted and in good condition, etc. I leave termite treatment and fire fighting to professionals :o)

[Lar]

In article , [e-mail] says... :) :) I was afraid of that. So are there no products which are advisable to repel the :) termites from the bottom of the wall? I know with other bugs if you apply a :) chemical in an area, they won't go near it.

Almost any product will do that, you are needing one that you won't be reapplying into the baseboards on weekly/monthly/quarterly basis. :) :) Is it because of the tubes that they're particularly resistant to this? In :) other words, even if there is repellant on the sill, that if they get a tub :) established, they can move right past the noxious zone into areas they can chow :) down?

Depending on the product and the ability to sacrifice thousands of a group so the colony survives. They can build the tubes through treated zones. :) :) So I presume that to protect a sheet of plywood, you'd need to spray both sides :) AND get the edges, too...

Yepper...actually in what you are trying to do, if by chance the area is next to a untreated bath trap area, and they come up and get to wood you weren't able to treat, they could still cause damage to the wood you treated from traveling inside the lumber and crossing into the next piece where the two pieces meet.

:) > The active ingredient :) > is the same as what is used for flea control in :) > Frontline.

:) Just curious, what would that be? Frontline is Fipronil used at 9.7%. Termidor is Fipronil used at either .06% or .125%.

:) > Termites find their food randomly they don't detect a :) > meal and head to it.

:) Right, but the more yummy food in a given area, the more random foraging will :) find it and the more termites will follow the trail to the banquet. I don't :) know much about termites but I know what happens if you drop a small piece of :) cake on the driveway and wait for the ants :-)

:) > That is one of the downfalls to the :) > baiting. They may find the baits and they may instead :) > still find your house with baits just inches away.

:) I always worried about that; and is part of the reason I wouldn't mind a spot :) treatment for the short term. At the very least, it's obvious that baits are a :) long-term solution at best since they need to be found and consumed; and as you :) say, if they're attacking the house, they may have less reason to find the baits :) since they have a direct line to food. Hence that's one of the reason to evict :) them from a zone where I KNOW they once were; make them resort to foraging, :) again, and hopefully find baits and other chemicals.

That is why for subterranean termites, treatment for them is attacking where they come from, the ground, whether it be the old style products that just creates a chemical shield for them or the newer products that they get into or find in their foraging zone. Unless there is a moisture problem going on, they can not survive without returning to the ground, so any in the walls at time of a treatment will not survive.

:) > I am guessing you have baited with terminate stakes.

:) Yes. I later found a few of them and they were empty. So I put out more. I :) tend to feel that long-term, they are the best solution; maybe I should put out :) a TON of them. Aren't they $50-$70 or more a box? 10 boxes, about the cost of having a home treated properly. :)

:) That's an interesting thought. Although I've never had any activity with :) SURFACE wood, with the exception of a board which had been dropped around the :) corner of the yard. I may try sticking the wood down IN the ground and then :) stake the area. Question - what kinds of wood are most appealing?

Yellow pine would be the most common you could find. Cardboard would probably get them faster.

:) > You should get some :) > kills and stop the activity in a few days, but it will :) > only effect a small percentage of the colony.

:) And what will actually kill the whole colony?

Sentricon and Exterra baits from professionals. Termidor as a liquid treatment by professionals.

:) BTW - I believe it's possible the colony was in the neighbors' yard. They had :) an entire covered porch nearly destroyed and their swarming was intense. I've :) only had trickles of swarming and the worst I've found was my door frame.

I believe the thought is in the South you can be looking at 7-15 established colonies per acre.

[Stellijer]

Lar wrote

Exactly :-)

Persistent little buggers, eh?

So; when you treat for one you effectively get some level of treatment for the other, eh?

I'm curious how they make the tunnels WAY across someplace to wood. Do they survive long enough to actually travel above ground for a considerable distance, leaving a trail for others to follow, building tubes? It would seem that if they have such low survivability above ground, they wouldn't forage enough to build all the tubes above ground.

Yes... you have a point. The boxes of 40 sell in stores for almost $100.

I noticed that in a door frame where termites got into it, they ate part of the wood, then avoided the next segment to a large degree, then started eating again. Whatever the one wood was they liked a whole lot better than the other. Indeed, it's the ONLY termite damage I've ever seen (and it looks long since abandoned)

Are the Sentricon / Exterra baits substantially different than the do-it-yourself baits or is it the professional application and monitoring which makes the difference?

Wow. Meaning a couple colonies per average lot. How far do these colonies extend? It sounds quite daunting. As I said earlier, it's amazing people would build at all, here, without PT lumber as the structural elements and even roof trusses.

I believe how the few termites I've seen inside got in. A crack in the slab in the corner of the room; they headed straight for a door frame. Any suggestions for dealing with the crack?

Thanks!

[Stellijer]

RamblinOn wrote

Indeed!!! Hence why I came here as well as am trying to read up. I don't believe in the poision approach too much. I only wanted to do a little spot treatment while I had some things exposed. That wasn't meant at all to be the method of overall control.

I'm always concerned about trusting contractors; some may be fine but many are not. Additionally, their goal is to sell the most expensive service possible, while I'm interested in balancing cost and effecitveness.

Which I'm sure is the case. Hence why I don't see any reason for such extreme measures. Again, I'm much more interested in what is effective rather than extreme measures which still may not work.

Yes, but I know that some wood is more appealing than other types. Such as humans will eat most any part of a cow but tenderloin is much preferred...

Indeed. I've seen fenceposts (PT) where you could tell there was at least a trace of termite activity. They didn't get very far but it's clear they tried.

[Lar]

In article , [e-mail] says... :) > :) > Frontline is Fipronil used at 9.7%. Termidor is :) > Fipronil used at either .06% or .125%.

:) So; when you treat for one you effectively get some level of treatment for the :) other, eh?

Not for the fleas, it is applied to the animal directly. But for ants, it is used around the foundation for 6 month to 1 year ant control, so when you have termite treatment ants tend to disappear.

:) > get into or find in their foraging zone. Unless there is :) > a moisture problem going on, they can not survive :) > without returning to the ground, so any in the walls at :) > time of a treatment will not survive.

:) I'm curious how they make the tunnels WAY across someplace to wood. Do they :) survive long enough to actually travel above ground for a considerable distance, :) leaving a trail for others to follow, building tubes? It would seem that if :) they have such low survivability above ground, they wouldn't forage enough to :) build all the tubes above ground.

I would guess it is a pheromone thing, they can leave the tunnels but not so much drying day or in sunshine. A slow time consuming process.

:) > Yellow pine would be the most common you could find. :) > Cardboard would probably get them faster.

:) I noticed that in a door frame where termites got into it, they ate part of the :) wood, then avoided the next segment to a large degree, then started eating :) again. Whatever the one wood was they liked a whole lot better than the other. :) Indeed, it's the ONLY termite damage I've ever seen (and it looks long since :) abandoned)

They will feed on the Spring growth of trees. The part they skipped probably didn't contain the moisture content that they need.

:) > Sentricon and Exterra baits from professionals. Termidor :) > as a liquid treatment by professionals.

:) Are the Sentricon / Exterra baits substantially different than the :) do-it-yourself baits or is it the professional application and monitoring which :) makes the difference?

The Do-it-yourself baits are basically a stomach poison. It will kill the termites that feeds on them and in turn a number of termites they feed. The Sentricon/Exterra are chitin inhibitors. As the bait is spread through the colony the only termites that are effected are the ones that are molting, so more of the product is spread through the colony because of the slower kill factor.

:) > I believe the thought is in the South you can be :) > looking at 7-15 established colonies per acre.

:) I believe how the few termites I've seen inside got in. A crack in the slab in :) the corner of the room; they headed straight for a door frame. Any suggestions :) for dealing with the crack?

Hard to say without seeing it, if you go with a patch try something that stays pliable rather than some sort of mortar mix.