Tempering tank for hot water system (2024 Update)

I don't quite agree with this statement. Electric heaters have heating elements that are threaded into the side of the tank but the element extends into or past the center of the tank. The bottom element comes on first to do the major portion of heating the water and the top element helps keep the temp at the set temp - as I understand it.

Steve

Reply to
Steve
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I am wondering if this study is considering what the source of the water is?? Public water supply system such as in residential and city areas? Or rural drilled wells?? Or is the bacteria inherrent in any water supply?

Reply to
Steve

I love it. Someone points out a scientific study and the messenger gets accused of being paranoid. This is a serious problem and there have been at least two dozens of studies on it all over the world. It affects about 1/3 of all residential electric water heaters. It's written up on the Centers for Disease Control and the World Health Organization websites. It kills people--literally. So maybe you should think twice about mocking those who bring up a serious potential health problem.

You can disagree all you want about the heating elements, but what I stated wasn't opinion, it's fact. The scientific studies show that the water at the very bottom of the tank can be almost 20 degrees cooler than water near the lower thermostat. So your opinion is really irrelevant to this discussion.

The fact that you've never heard of this before is also irrelevant.

Water heater manufacturers recommend setting the T-stats at 130-140 degrees. That's much higher than in years past--before they discovered the Legionella bacteria. The higher temps set up a potential for scalding. The scalding issue is why plumbing codes now require mixing valves in the shower. Some local communities require mixing valves at EVERY faucet.

If this was no big deal, there would be no need for the higher temps and no need for anti-scald valves. You could set your water heater at

104 degrees, which is plenty hot for a shower.
Reply to
Rick-Meister

It's found in nature but is resistant to chlorine. Heat is the best killer. Ironically, if you read deeper into the studies, you find that homes with electric water heaters and copper plumbing had a significantly lower incidence of the bacteria compared to homes with galvanized pipes.

They think the bacteria feeds on iron and is killed by copper. But the studies are somewhat inconclusive on that.

Reply to
Rick-Meister

well even IF all this is actually true, i guess i don't have to worry.

  1. I don't have electric in my own house
  2. I always set them at at least 140 degrees.
s

Reply to
Steve Barker

pssst..... i rekon the whole thing is just bullshit.

s

otherwise 1 third of our neighbors would be dead.

s

I am wondering if this study is considering what the source of the water is?? Public water supply system such as in residential and city areas? Or rural drilled wells?? Or is the bacteria inherrent in any water supply?

Reply to
Steve Barker

Well, the symptoms mimick pneumonia so it's hard to make a firm diagnosis. The people most at risk for death are those with weakened immune systems, smokers, and elderly.

Otherwise, you could think you had a bad case of bronchitis or some other respiratory infection and not know you had Legionaire's Disease. If you catch it early, it's cured with antibiotics. .

You get it from breathing in the mists in the shower.

Then again, I suppose you can't believe anything the CDC or World Health Organizations write.

or can you?

Since you guys are so skeptical---read this:

Each year, between 8,000 and 18,000 people are hospitalized with Legionnaires' disease in the U.S. However, many infections are not diagnosed or reported, so this number may be higher. More illness is usually found in the summer and early fall, but it can happen any time of year. What are the symptoms of Legionnaires' disease?

Legionnaires' disease can have symptoms like many other forms of pneumonia, so it can be hard to diagnose at first. Signs of the disease can include: a high fever, chills, and a cough. Some people may also suffer from muscle aches and headaches. Chest X-rays are needed to find the pneumonia caused by the bacteria, and other tests can be done on sputum (phlegm), as well as blood or urine to find evidence of the bacteria in the body.

These symptoms usually begin 2 to 14 days after being exposed to the bacteria.

A milder infection caused by the same type of Legionella bacteria is called Pontiac Fever . The symptoms of Pontiac Fever usually last for

2 to 5 days and may also include fever, headaches, and muscle aches; however, there is no pneumonia. Symptoms go away on their own without treatment and without causing further problems.

Pontiac Fever and Legionnaires' disease may also be called "Legionellosis" (LEE-juh-nuh-low-sis) separately or together.

How serious is it? What is the treatment?

Legionnaires' disease can be very serious and can cause death in up to

5% to 30% of cases. Most cases can be treated successfully with antibiotics [drugs that kill bacteria in the body], and healthy people usually recover from infection.
Reply to
Rick-Meister

Well, maybe I'm somewhat safe as I only have copper plumbing. In no way am I calling you, the messenger, paranoid. I'd like to thank you for bringing this to my attention. I plan to do some more reading into this. Thanks!

Steve

Reply to
Steve

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 17:01:16 -0800 (PST), Steve wrote Re Re: Tempering tank for hot water system:

Because very few people drink water from their hot water heater. If they do, they usually heat it up more while cooking, making coffee/tea, etc. thus killing any bacteria that might be present.

Reply to
Caesar Romano

I don't quite agree with this statement. Electric heaters have heating elements that are threaded into the side of the tank but the element extends into or past the center of the tank. The bottom element comes on first to do the major portion of heating the water and the top element helps keep the temp at the set temp - as I understand it.

*********************************************************

The top element heats the water near the outlet, then the lower element heats the rest of the water. Thus, you get hot water faster than if you just used the lower element.

Reply to
Bob F

oh anyone can drink once heated water easily.

your wife washes her hands in hot water turns water off, walks away.....

10 minutes later you came in and get a drink of water from the tap.

the once heated water is trapped in the faucet, your drink is partially once heated water

Reply to
hallerb

I say urban myth, just look at all of those giant water tanks supplying communities all over the world that dont make people sick. Then there is chlorine that kills what really makes you sick and legionela.

Reply to
ransley

That's what I was wondering too. In other words, what does this have to do with a tempering tank? If it takes 140 deg to make hot water legionaire free, then just set the electric water heater to 140 deg whether you use a tempering tank or not.

Reply to
trader4

From other articles I have read, it sounds like it is most likely to occur where water has been stagnant for a period of time like in a water leg to a faucet that doesn't get used very often. If water is continually being used daily through a hot water heater system, there seems to be less of a chance of occurrance. But there are lots and lots of studies done on this and it depends on which ones you tend to believe. Also, large buildings with huge hot water distribution systems can be particularly vulnerable and especially the outer reaches of the hot water systems. Lots of interesting stuff that I wouldn't have known about if not for the Rick-Meister bringing this up...........

Thanks! Steve

Reply to
Steve

Yes, but In the civilized world, where disease is under control, the water from those tanks is treated with cholrine before being delivered to the user. In the case of a water heater, one could have a domestic well, which is an entirely different situation.

I tend to agree though that from a practical standpoint, of all the legionaire stories I've ever read, none that I've seen involved getting it from a domestic water heater.

Reply to
trader4

Did you know that if the top element goes out, the bottom one will not work? It happened to me.

Steve

Reply to
Steve

It should be set to at least 140 regardless of your paranoia level. You can't wash dishes properly at any less.

s

That's what I was wondering too. In other words, what does this have to do with a tempering tank? If it takes 140 deg to make hot water legionaire free, then just set the electric water heater to 140 deg whether you use a tempering tank or not.

Reply to
Steve Barker

Clean dishes, legionares, aids, syphlis, Nile fever, paranoia. I heat water in my place and apartments only as hot as needed to take a good shower. It saves money and nobody gets sick or complains. My next gas bills might be near 4000.00 I pay to much already to waste money on heating water more, which literaly is $ down the drain. Dishes are clean for less $ and Ng is saved. 140f is harder on pipes than 120, scale builds much quicker, leaks occur more often, valves dont last as long, water heaters last longer.

Reply to
ransley

.

to the OP re the tempering tank... in the winter, the energy used to warm the water will be taken from the heat that would have heated the basmeent, if you have excess, then fine go for it...

but what i really wanted to asay is in any case please be sure to include temperature pressure relief valves both on the tempering tank and the main tank especially if you are setting up your valves to be able to bypass one or the other.

The last thing you EVER want is a sealed tank with water and a source of heat..

Mark

Reply to
makolber

He has a wood stove in winter, and warm summer air in summer. It works for my set up. His problem is to not forget a pan and hose under the tank, in a hot summer it could be a dripping mess.

Reply to
ransley

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