Swamp Cooler to Refrigeration A/C

Do you have forced air heat system ?? If so, the AC fits within it and use same existing ducting. Yes, it recirculates inside air, otherwise would run continously and cost a fortune to operate. You normally close all doors and windows, which can be its own problem re "stale" air etc. I've had both systems; if swamper has been OK (ie dry climate like Denver), you won't like AC.

--reed

Yup, I've got forced air. Trouble is, the Swamp cooler isn't located near the furnace. The furnace supply feeds the floors of the house while pulling from a couple large vents in the walls. My swamp cooler is on the ground not near one of these return grilles. So it looks like I'm SOL unless I want to do some major stuff. In terms of Swamp vs. Refrigerated, well that's a debate. I live in Albuquerque and the swamp cooler is OK but not great. The last few years has seen higher than normal humidities so at night it struggles. I'd prefer the refrigerated route but I'll make do with the swamp it looks like. Thanks much, jlc

And of course in Phoenix, the humidity of the monsoon season will make you glad you've gone AC in July and August. If you don't have forced air heat with a return air system now, there are AC units that mount a somewhat attractive unit on the upper wall of a room and run two small refrigerant tubes outside to the condenser. I think Mitsubishi is one manufacturer. This was one possible solution for my Mother's house which has hot water heat and no ductwork of any kind. The other was what I think they called a high pressure system which had a series of small round vents installed along the outer edge of the ceiling and connected by flexible hose to one large duct that ran down the center of the attic. One large return would have been cut into the ceiling in a central hall area. Ended up purchasing a portable AC unit that connected to a window with flexible vent tube. She's

You might try a different configuration with better controls, eg turn on the swamp to cool recirculated house air when the indoor temp rises to 80 F and turn on a small exhaust fan when the indoor RH rises to 65%.

This works in Melbourne Australia...

Nick

In a standard AC system, only the compressor unit is outside the house, connected by 2 small pipes to the refrig coil unit, which is mounted inside the furnace's plenum, usually above the heat exchanger in an updraft furnace. It also uses the furnace's existing blower to circulate the refrig air.

No large ducts go outside, so it may be possible to replace the swamper with the compressor unit, depending on distance.

Other solutions could be as other poster mentioned.

--reed

Few use swamp coolers there.

Its a f***ed approach with a swamp cooler, nowhere for the higher humidity that comes out of the cooler to get out of the house.

I too had the impression that Melbourne (vs Perth) was too humid for swamp cooling, but I was wrong (have you ever been wrong? :-)

Reading more carefully, you might wonder what the exhaust fan does.

Then again, 22C is cool, but comfy (PMV = 0.007), with vel = 0.1 m/s and clo = 1 insulation. Raising vel to 0.5 and lowering clo to 0.5 makes 35 C at

Nick

When did you live in Melbourne?

Sounds to me like your not as far off from the goal as you think. If the swamper is outside on the ground and you intend to remove it then the duct work from the swamper to the first register in the home can be removed. Replace the furnace with a furnace and a "A" coil for the a/c. Duct work can be larger for swampers than the a/c. I have seen homes in Phoenix with 2 complete duct work systems so that the moist air does not bother the "A" coil. I usually install a damper above the "A" and you just have to remember to change positions for the system running.

Ask around and find someone who has done several of these conversions. Experience is the key. Then add some insulation in the attic.

snipped-for-privacy@ece.villanova.edu wrote

They dont work very well there, which is why few bother with them.

Nope, never ever.

Not in Melbourne they dont.

No point in closing all the windows, stupid.

Presumably thats a typo and you mean 25C

Too cool for me.

A properly designed swamp cooler system can run with just the fan and no water, no need for extra ceiling fans.

Most think that 28C at 35% is too warm.

Thanks. I'll call around and see what they say. I really don't want to be tearing up the slab, walls, roof for this so we'll just see what's doable. I can't add insulation in the attic cause there isn't one :) (flat roofed house). I really just wanted to see if this was doable without major construction/costs. Sounds like "maybe" is the answer and my best bet is to get someone in here that knows what they're doing! Cheers, cc

In a dry climate it is a bad idea to use evaporative cooling on recirculated air. It is more effective to directly cool the outside air, force this cooled air into the home and allow room air to exhaust outside. I proved this on your last flooded floor scenario, or was it the inverted pool of pine, the cool tower

Huh?? An evaporative cooler has to start with dry air to cool it down by evaporating water into it. If you recirculate the air it will get too damp to cool. You will have a damp and hot area:)

Al

I was responding to what I have shown in quotes below Big Al. I was mentioning that it is a bad idea to use evaporative cooling on indoor air. It is best to cool the outside air, force it into the home and displace room air outside,

Using an evaporative cooler on indoor air will either require more water and higher volumes of air being moved and exhausted, or it will just simply over humidifiy a home.

"From: snipped-for-privacy@ece.villanova.edu - view profile Date: Sat, Mar 11 2006 12:31 am Email: snipped-for-privacy@ece.villanova.edu Groups: alt.home.repair, sci.engr.heat-vent-ac, misc.consumers.frugal-living, alt.architecture.alternative

You might try a different configuration with better controls, eg turn on the swamp to cool recirculated house air when the indoor temp rises to

"Then again, 22C is cool, but comfy (PMV = 0.007), with vel = 0.1 m/s and clo = 1 insulation. Raising vel to 0.5 and lowering clo to 0.5 makes 35 C at

You are simply too much, at clo=butt naked, anyone enduring a dewpoint of about 81.5F is not going to be comfortable and would be seeking air conditioned space.

I endured a month of conditions similar to what you are postulating during a prolonged power outage after a Cat 5 storm, and with a small gen running ceiling fans and floor fans, it was no where near comfortable.

After I salvaged a small window shaker AC that the gen could run, I managed to pull the house down to 83F and 68% RH, about a 71.4F dewpoint and compared to what it was like before with an 81.5 dewpoint it felt good but it was still a far cry from comfortable.

In your opinion. Then again, I proved it was, using numbers :-)

Nick

Well alt.home.repair appears to have missed the thread.

How about this as a Swamp Cooler idea????

High pressure water (160-200psi min - up to 2000psi) thru very small orifice nozzles parallel to and pointing slightly away from the condenser coil of a Refrigeration A/C. You DO not want ANY of this spray to HIT the coils of the condenser even if you use ultra high purity water (i.e. RO or Distilled) as mineral plating will occur. The evaporation of this fine spray is rapid and will lower the temps of the air entering the condenser, thereby cooling the working fluid faster and to a lower temperature, shorter runtimes for the compressor, faster cooldown of the dwelling, etc.

With a 160psi system I built, 4 nozzles consume about 2 gallons of water per hour of operation. Higher pressures with smaller nozzles will produce a much smaller droplet of water that will evaporate faster. These higher pressures will use more water, but produce a MUCH more impressive effect.

And Nathan tried it out in Melbourne and said it worked fine, with an indoor swamp cooler that ran on a rising temp and a small exhaust fan that ran on a rising RH. So far we have a) basic physics with numbers, b) a successful experiment, and c) Abby's qualitative rants :-)

It's been there...

Yogi Goswami tried that in Florida, with an energy savings of about 20%. But it seems better to trickle rainwater over the coils.

Distilled water contains minerals? :-)

Nick

Rheam used to make a condenser with copper coils. They sprayed water directly on the coils. It had a tank and pump similar to a swamp cooler. To prevent mineral buildup, about 1/3 the way down on the condenser coils there was a small trough that caught some of the water and drained it off. My understanding is that with the water cooking the efficiency improved at least 30% in a relatively dry climate.

A big factory building in Southern California had a large decorative pool with fountains. It was the cooling pond for their air conditioner. The water began to get too warm so they raised the fountains about a foot or two to get more evaporation and cooling.

Another method for home in a dry climate use would be to set a window swamp cooler on the ground in front of the condenser, cooling the freon with cooled air.