seeking advise for shed project

[cheapdave]

Planning to build a 10' X 12' storage shed and have some questions....Right now just want to work out plan for foundation...I want to construct this thing so that the floor sits about 1 foot above the ground level. Do not want to pour a concrete slab, and want a solid quality job. Here is what I'm thinking of doing. Oh one other thing, frost line here is 42"......I was thinking to cut treated 4 x 4's to 60" then dig down 48" into ground at each corner, then cementing them leaving 1' of post above ground. I plan to then put 4 x 4 posts every 4' so 12' sides would have 4 posts and I guess just 3 posts for 10' sides with just one post in center. then bolting 2 treated 2 x 6's to posts, the top ones would be the outside floor joists. Then using 10' 2 x 6's every 16" for rest of the floor joists. then 3/4 plywood floor. Does this seem like reasonable plan? and could I get by with crushed rock instead of cement for 8 non corner posts and using shorter lengths, like 36" with just 2' in ground? Thanks, any help appreciated.

[professorpaul]

Sounds reasonable. FWIIW, a couple of years back, I wanted to put a deck on the back of my house. Needed it close to the ground -- maybe

12" off, at most, as doors on to it were just above ground level/one step. I put in 4"x4" posts about 36" deep, resting on concrete pads. Then filled with dirt. Cut posts off to desired height, and using deck hangers, built a grid of 2' x 4' stringers, and decked this over. Local code (Lancaster, PA) required holes to be 36" or more deep, and on concrete pads. Glad I did, as a year or so later, I put a hot tub on the deck, added a fence, and I needed the load bearing capabilities.

[Dan Kuechle]

I've had no trouble at all over the past 10 years with a floating floor. Its just a framework of treated 2x4's on edge that sits on the ground and then covered with plywood. I don't think the plywood is even treated. Heck of a lot less work. Its in Minnesota, so frost issues should be the same as yours.

Dan

[HeyBub]

I would think the wood would be a goner in a few years. You might consider sonotubes.

Here's an alternate idea: Post-hole dig down 4', put a 2' sonotube in the hole such that it stick up one foot, drop some rebar down the hole and fill the thing with concrete. After it sets a bit, poke some bolts in the concrete with which to mount your foundation.

[ransley]

hen 3/4

Im in a zone 5 area thats gotten to -22f, maybe 36" freeze depth, the small premaid sheds with floor at menards, HD are made to rest on about 15 concrete blocks off the ground. My neighbors and I did them that way. For such a small buiding I dont see the need for what you plan, plus its alot more work and money.

[Oren]

Good idea. Couple a samples here:

[bob haller]

. I plan to

joists. =EF=BF=BDthen 3/4

animals move in under shed, concrete much better choice.

you could build a one block high wall around permiter then pour floor.

why dont you want concrete?

[Red Green]

Oren wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Bet the guy in the blue hat was strategically selected with crawlspaces in mind.

[Oren]

One block in the footer, then what another course, before he pours. Gotta have footer, right? So he would need a footer and two courses of block, soil and compaction before the pour? Just checkin'

Maybe allergic to work?

[Oren]

Maybe so. He would be my first called upon.

[aemeijers]

Don't know if this applies to OP, but around here, putting it on a concrete foundation makes it a 'permanent' building as far as the tax man is concerned, and can raise your assessment for property taxes. But aside from that, a concrete foundation is the best way to go, as long as you are sure you'll never want to move the thing.

-- aem sends...

[WhiteTea]

hen 3/4

Your idea sounds good.

You might think about putting some of those galvanized holders into the corners that you concrete and bolting the 4 x 4's onto them.

It would use a lot less wood and the wood would not have direct contact with the ground.

Andy

[Mortimer Schnerd]

I've got my motorcycle in a shed supported on such blocks and it's as solid as can be. Of course, I don't live where the wind is likely to carry it off. Frankly, I got mine built with floor joists 12" on center so it would carry the weight of the bike without complaint. The shed's quite stout.

Mortimer Schnerd, RN mschnerd at carolina.rr.com

[benick]

Your idea sounds good.

You might think about putting some of those galvanized holders into the corners that you concrete and bolting the 4 x 4's onto them.

It would use a lot less wood and the wood would not have direct contact with the ground.

Andy

Your idea sounds pretty good but it seems like overkill to me for a 10X12 shed....My 10X10 shed is built on 6X6 pressure treated skids setting on blocks about 18 inches off the ground with vinyl lattace around it..Been a few years now and it's still pretty pretty level..No rott , ect..Don't know about your area but here in Maine if your shed is 100 Square feet or less(10X10) and NOT on a foundation there is no permit , fees or setbacks , ect. and NO tax increase..FWIW....

[cheapdave]

I know concrete foundation is best way to go, but am wanting a way to build this thing that I can do by my self. I don't have anyone I can impose on to help, so would have to pay someone.....and more cost would be difficult....The other idea I had was to build on blocks...and not sure what is best way of doing this...I am positioning this thing in location where I have poor drainage..heavy spring rains can result in several inches of water in this area. I thought of digging out sod about 6" or so deep by 12" wide? and filling with crushed limestone stuff.....compacting/leveling then laying blocks on top and building shed on top of this...does this sound feasible? would I cement the blocks together? also Andy I do not know what you mean when you say galvanized holder into the corners that you concrete and bolting the 4 x 4's onto them? can you explain please. I am in Michigan and here there is no permit required as long as shed is under 200 sq ft.

[celticsoc]

the floor

To dovetail on thatidea, instead of waiting for the concrete to set up for a while, why not set a long rod into the concrete when it is poured, having it protrude a bit, and set the plates on that? If you use threaded rod, you can use a nut to secure the 2x4 plate.

In order to get the rod to stand straight, it can be screwed into a small wood or plastic block. If it shifts while pouring, grab the end that sticks out and straightn it, or even tie it off from a couple side. It would be a very stable anchor for the plate. You could even countersink the nut with the appropriate sized spade bit, and cut off the excess theaded rod if you have any sticking over the plate.

[cshenk]

wrote

Understood.

I was going to ask that. How's your drainage. I'd go with a buried cinderblock design and gravel fill then posts in the holes.

Yes.

Yes, I would but I'm looking a a pillar type of construction, not a solid wall. This due to drainage. The only other part, is I'm not sure if just 1 center post will be sufficient. I'm thinking 2 about 1/3 way in (center) might be better over time. Especially if you plan anything remotely heavy in there.

[Oren]

Simpson StrongTies.

Catalog: Wood Construction Connectors 2009-2010

Download here.

[Colbyt]

I understand that desire.

I am in the planning process for a small shed myself. In my case there is no way to get a concrete truck anywhere near the site and that is way to much to mix by hand.

While I have not done the math yet to determine the exact specs, my initial plans are to dig 4 maybe six 18" round holes and pour at least 12" of concrete into each so that the 4 pads are level. If needed I may add an extra one on each side where the rim joists will be.

Then I plan to mortar set (final leveling) one of those precast deck post bases that you buy at the BORG. Frame up the floor using PT lumber supported by those bases, cover with deck boards, frame up the walls and roof it.

The last time I built one of these I just set PT 4x4 posts in concrete and built from there since I was building over an old blacktop driveway. Not sure I trust this new PT stuff for ground rated contact hence the modified plan. Also this time I need a floor.

The hardest part is going to be achieving level for all the footer holes.

Building codes do not apply to such a small "non-permanent", movable structure here. Make sure you are okay on that score.

[gfretwell]

I am not sure about what it is like in the frozen north but here in Florida concrete pumps are everywhere and not real busy right now. You can get one to pump for $50-75. Sure beats a wheelbarrow. I would pour the floor as a monoslab footer and pour an apron in front of the door location while he was there. Think about where else you want some concrete and do it too. If you order a "safe" amount, you will usually have some left over. It is easy to drag that pump hose somewhere else to use the rest.,