this one sounds obvious but I've already seen differences between what I
read in books and what is common practice so I figured I'd ask.
Getting ready to install porcelain floor tiles. We're going to use those
little plastic spacers to establish grout lines. It clearly says on the
package to remove the spacers prior to grouting. There is a tool especially
made for removing these things.
Installer (or perhaps soon to be ex-installer) says he plans on just leaving
them in and grouting on top of them. This seems crazy to me. Is this
thanks for comments
That was my first thought as well. My reply back to him was "you're kidding
right?". And he said no.. he does it that way all the time. This wouldn't
be the first thing he's done that demonstrates he's a bit of a hack. I just
hope to hell my new window doesn't leak everywhere and the stucco patch fall
out when the rainy season hits.... Has a general contractor's license
too... .. Ah well.. live and learn.. glad I caught this one before we
On Sun, 29 May 2005 16:08:37 GMT, email@example.com wrote:
I just had a bathroom floor replaced. The guy doing the tile work removed the
spacers from each section as it was completed. No tools, just picked them
gently out of the tile.
They were placed on the top of the seam as it was set.
New Eagle, PA
It now occurs to me to wonder about another aspect of this floor job. We're
going to lay the tiles over existing 1x1 sq ft vinyl tile. Installer says
this is fine as long as the tiles are firmly set and we've chipped away some
of the loose pieces around the border and used some floor leveler to build
up the slab to a height that's flush with the vinyl tile. He did go around
and pretty carefully inspect the floor for suspect tiles. Seemed to know
what he was looking for.
I've researched this a bit and didn't find any big red flags regarding
laying porcelain tile over vinyl. Basically just the same concerns that the
installer has, to make sure that the vinyl is firmly set.
Any other gotcha's regarding this I should be aware of? Is a special mortar
required? Any special surface prep of the existing vinyl needed? Again I
haven't seen anything jumping out of google searchs regarding this but if
someone has any info I'd appreciate it. Really like to do this right the
thanks for comments
You can get some perspectives on this question by typing in "tile over
vinyl" (in quotes) in the Google "Groups" search bar. Overall advice is
you should never do this, as your plastic tiles are compressible and will
result in cracking and de-bonding of the mortar or mastic, ruining the tile
This story, plus the willingness for the contractor to leave the spacers in
the tile, should tell you to discontinue your dependence on this fellow.
Thanks for the info. I have read the various google hits that come up on
the first few pages anyway. If any vinyl tile can be tiled over w/ceramic,
as some have reported using modified thinset, then I think these can. They
are thin, installed directly on the slab, and have almost no compressibility
left in them. They are very firmly set as well.
Had I put less trust in this contractor to start with I would have had us
remove the flooring prior to installing the cabinets. I really don't want
to try and remove the flooring now that the cabinets are installed.
I'm gonna get some professional tile setters opinions and bids and go from
And yes, my installer is now my ex-installer.
Okay for the most part, but your wisdom concerning "compressible" blah
blah does not necessarily apply to vinyl sheet goods or even the vinyl
tiles. Tile is installed over vinyl 'sheet' goods all of the time and
is an acceptable practice by TCA standards. However, I would not
install over vinyl 'tiles', and as the OP mentioned he has some chipped
there are some chipped ones yes but he cut them back until he hit firmly set
tile and then troweled in floor leveler (Jasco) to get a level surface.
Also where the tiles are chipped are areas that are actually underneath the
base cabinets and up against the toe kick. Those areas won't get much
vertical force on them. Like I said, if it's possible to do at all then I
think it can be done here. I was more concerned with prep of the surface
for adhesion than the integrity of the surface flexion.
still, I very much appreciate the input.
Not commonly done, no. It's been done before when using thick quarry
tile but not a real good idea. I've removed floors that had them in
place still. You don't any special tools. Just use a pair of
needlenose pliers to yank'em before you grout.
Based upon *your* desc. I wouldn't remove it. Remember, that vinyl
sheet performs two services for you. Anti-fracture as well as a
moisture inhibitor for hydrostatic pressure. You should use a latex
I'm not sure what you mean..
Anti-fracture meaning good for the tile which will go over, or an advantage I'll
lose with tile (I know that..)? And where does being a "moisture inhibitor for
hydrostatic pressure" come in? If it's relevant, this kitchen is over a heated
bottom floor/basememt in a hillside ranch.
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