rewiring for DSL

[Jeff Thies]

I'd like to rewire the rental's phone lines for DSL. It's a mess of old phone wire running pretty much everywhere. I'll need just two jacks, one for the DSL modem and one for a Vonage connection.

Is the old phone wiring capable of DSL? Should I run new wire and what kind? My first impulse was to run cat5 or 6 but I don't know what the connection to the phone jack would be from that. That and I don't believe I have any!

I believe the Telco entrance box has a phone jack that can plug into some kind of punch down also in the box.

Just need some background info before I go off hunting for this. Probably heading to Fry's or some such. Quick and easy is what I'd prefer.

Jeff

[kansascats]

Look online for some network wiring tips.

From the outside phone box you can run cat 5 or 6 into a central location in the house. You can bring in both DSL and voice if you want. It depends a bit on how the telco wires it.

Then you can run a line from the central location to your jack of choice.

If you already have phone wires running around -- you may be able to use them, but the better choice would be to use cat 5 or 6. You might be able to use the old phone wiring for voice and just run new wiring for DSL. Telcos are different though. Some run DSL over the same voice pairs, some put DSL on a dedicated pair.

I'm not sure how Vonage works, but my guess is you need the telco DSL model between Vonage and your wiring.

The simpliest would be to find out if your DSL is over the same voice pair or a different pair. If different -- then just run from the outside box to your inside jack. DSL will be to that one jack only then. If DSL and voice are over the same pair, it's best to run that pair on cat 5, the split out in a central location and run the DSL line over cat 5 to your jack from that central location. You use a punch down block at the central location to split out the wires -- the one from the box to each of the different jacks (voice and/or dsl).

This is probably confusing -- but it sort of depends on what the telco does and what you want. If you want all home runs and DSL at every jack, that's a different beast than getting DSL to one jack.

[Colbyt]

Having a direct run from the phone box on the outside to the DSL jack is highly preferred. Old wiring was often daisy chained and provides a lot of places for noise.

When I rewired an old house I pulled cat 5 to every jack. It is fine for phones. Phones only need 2 wires and the color does not matter. With modern equipment the polarity does not matter either. With old phones it did matter. Chance are I am one of the few people with a phone old enough to matter.

Cat 5 adds a layer of shielding that common phone wire does not have. Think of it as an aluminum foil condom.

The telco box may be punch down or screw connect. You are legally allowed to connect the wires to the "customer side" of the box.

[clare]

Sorry to have to dissagree with you, but neither cat5 or cat5E has a foil sheild - and nor does cat 6 to the best of my knowlege. The difference between them is basically in the number of twists per foot in the twisted pairs.

Twisted pairs provide "common mode" noise rejection. Splitting pairs looses that advantage, so colour code DOES matter.

[mike]

When I installed DSL, I did this. In the box outside, there's a rj11 plug that can be undone for the service guy to test the line. I unplugged it and inserted a DSL filter in between. Now, the house wiring is isolated for DSL and works per usual without having to install filters everywhere. Then I ran a separate wire from the line side of the filter to the separate RJ11 jacks for the computer.

[George]

Foil shielded twisted pair cable is available. Usually the only time you see it is when someone doesn't appreciate how well twisted pairs and the differential line drivers and receivers of Ethernet hardware reject common mode noise.

[zxcvbob]

Cat3 cable works great. Plain ol' telephone service wire might be OK if it's a short enough run but your throughput will probably suffer. Can you just disconnect the old wires at the entrance box and abandon them in place? You said this is a rental, and the next guy may want to use the old wires and jacks...

You could also put a DSL filter in entrance box to isolate all the old wiring and continue using it for telephone, and just have one new unfiltered line for your DSL modem. (one cheap $2 filter is good enough, you don't need the $30+ splitter)

Bob

[Metspitzer]

That is pretty clever.

[Metspitzer]

I would just wait and see.

[A. Baum]

Back in my DSL days I ran virgin CAT5 from the network interface (outside box) right to the modem. I found that I had less modem retrains with a filter on that line. This was a second line use only for the DSL. But I had problems downstream to the DSLAM. Rain caused de-sync, the telco couldn't explain it and I eventually told them to shove the modem up their ass.

[The Daring Dufas]

You must check with your telephone company to make sure the box on the outside wall is compatible with DSL, there is usually a picture on their website showing which NID/demarcation box will work. The DSL filter I use on all installations is a weather proof heavy duty filter made by several manufacturers and I run a separate line to the DSL modem from the filter which I mount outside next to the phone company NID.

The big filter has superior performance and also has fuses to protect the indoor equipment. It's cheaper to replace the filter than to replace a half dozen phone devices. If you can solder you can replace the fuses.

TDD

[clare]

Didn't say it wasn't available, but it ain't Cat5!

[Jeff Thies]

It's tagged as such.

there is usually a picture on their

Telco has been out twice and are coming out again tomorrow.

There is only DSL so I disconnected all but the line to the jack the modem is on. I don't need a filter on the DSL line do I? Only thing in line now is some kind of old lightning suppressor, which I cleaned up the connections to.

I'll look into that.

I'm thinking the problem is somewhere upstream to the DSLAM but I want to make sure my end is OK. I remember when AT&T didn't suck.

Jeff

[The Daring Dufas]

Oh man, I think I posted a while back about the problems I had straightening out my friend GB's DSL service. I spent hours on the phone and three AT&T DSL techs came out to his home within a few weeks and all three found a different problem. I finally went through my DSL modem collection and found a ZOOM DSL modem router with 4 port switch that worked on his line. The ZOOM is a better modem than the Westell or Netopia and seems to be able to work through the line noise. The Zoom has worked without a glitch since I set it up weeks ago. :-)

TDD

[Tony Miklos]

When I got DSL they gave me a bunch of filters for each phone to eliminate interference between the DSL and phones. I took one single filter and ran the phone wire from the box, through the filter, then to all the phones in the house. Then ran a separate line from the telco box straight to the computer. I was later told that is the preferred method and the computer line was called a "home run". I used cat 5.

[Jeff Thies]

Hmm, I think it is the Westell I had in my free collection that is in the rental. A Netopia here, and that lately has been losing sync at times. I'll hunt out a ZOOM if this persists. There is about 30' of old line running over ducts and such which I've moved out of direct contact. How do those line testers work and can you get them cheap?

Jeff

[The Daring Dufas]

If you're just testing pairs that are hooked up 568B, a $10.00 tester will check the pairs for continuity and/or shorts. To certify the cable, the test equipment can cost $600.00 to $6,000.00 and you can get a printout for your records. I have a Byte Brothers RWC1000 which I got a good deal on from one of my electronics suppliers. I often do national contract installations and testing of networks and gear so I have to upload test results on cable speed, skew, frequency response and length. If you have a good piece of Cat5 and don't pinch it or bend it at a sharp 90° angle, it should work fine.

The Zoom modem I used:

The Zoom doesn't use IP 192.168.X.X it is usually IP 10.0.0.2 to access the configuration menu. The Zoom has a lot of parameters that you can set for all sorts of things including a very good firewall.

TDD

[aemeijers]

My 3rd-party DSL provider (on 2nd dry pair) told me they'd TOS me if I plugged up any other modem but theirs, and the mac address (or whatever) didn't match. Guess they wanna ensure the rental income from the modem, even though they subtract out the modem cost every month due to the program I signed up under. I keep seeing very fancy DSL modems for five bucks at garage sales and goodwill, etc.

I sure wish Ma Bell would bring their DSL out this far. Twice the speed for same price, or half the price for the same speed. I know it would work- my provider's head end is next door to the CO downtown, and rides Ma Bell wires. But I'm a quarter-mile outside their QOS circle, and they aren't putting any more money into copper DSL anyway, wanting everyone to sign up for expen$ive Uverse. (Which they decided not to run down my road anyway, from the big road, even though they ran it the other direction from the big road, to the fancy subdivisions. But I digress....)

[George]

Sure it is. Same cable but with a foil shield:

Here is a shot of how the drain wire gets connected:

Note the metal tab on the side of the plug. The connector has a metal shell and the tab contacts it.

[The Daring Dufas]

My friend had his original BellSouth supplied Westell modem for 9 years. I don't think AT&T gives a rip if he has installed another modem. ^_^

TDD