I intend to use 12 volts, not the higher traction battery voltage. The car will use the traction battery to keep the 12 volt battery charged (via a built-in DC to DC converter) and occassionally use the gasoline engine to keep the traction battery charged. There are many threads in various news groups and forums covering this topic. This, of course, isn't as efficient as a dedicated generator, but I will never have to worry about stale gas or not being able to start a seldomly used generator. I am told the car will supply 1000 to 1500 watts for about a week on a single tank of gas.
I just responded in the other thread, but I plan to use 12 volts, not the higher traction battery voltage. The car uses a DC to DC converter to keep the 12 volt battery charged and starts its engine periodically to keep the traction battery charged. The 2004 to 2009 model can supply 1000 watts continuously while the 2010 can supply
1500 watts. Other have used the traction battery for this, but I don't want to modify the car.
To answer another question, the 12 volt battery is in the trunk making it easy to directly attach to it and store the inverter there.
Then you are basically using your car as a generator. Anyone can do that. It's a rather cumbersome solution but does have the virtue of simplicity. The food in my fridge is not a real big worry for me. If we loose power for a couple days sitting in the dark and sometimes cold and cooking everything on the grill gets old fast. I have a 4kw generator I paid $500 for. It runs my entire house. I backfeed. We use the tv, the computers, the lights, the microwave, etc. In the winter we have central heat.
That is also true, but the Prius has the advantage of only running the gasoline engine as required. Most other vehicles will run the engine continuously at idle. ... That's not a show stopper, but it wastes energy. A properly sized generator is more efficient than either one, but I already have the Prius and don't need power backup very often.
Thanks to you and all the others who provided input.
There is no such thing, or at least one that I can find.
$150 for a six-by-six inch flat piece of metal is obscene.
Nevertheless, I'm considering buying one, using it as a template to make my own, then selling the original on Ebay. I figure my net outlay, then, to be about $10 which is a more reasonable price.
Heck, I might even make more than one, sell the copies for $50 each and retire to a mobile home in Bakersfield!
If I decide to do that, members of this group will get first crack at the product.
WEll...yes, and I don't argue with that. My concern was that he didn't look at ANY of the wiring to see if it was the correct size or routed and secured properly. Stickers on the breakers was the only thing he seemed to care about.
Good point. Maybe it's a local thing. A friend just upgraded his service. They wouldn't let him put the first breaker more than one stud-spacing away from the service entrance. Seems they're worried about some contractor driving a nail thru the cable. The first current limit is on the other side of the transformer on the pole at 8KV or some such. Something about arc-fault. If you get an arc started, it just keeps burning itself back until it reaches a place where the separation is great enough to extinguish the plasma. The house is well up in flames long before that happens and there's nothing you can do but watch it happen...assuming you weren't blinded in the initial flash.
While I think
The key is "were"...my house is 40 years old when they didn't regulate that. So, yes, "most" houses are older than that and weren't affected.
I think I could fix mine by installing a combo transfer-swtich and meter base/breaker at the service entrance. Then the existing wire to the main breaker box would be ok. Still WAY too much hassle and not exactly a DIY thing==> $$$$$
Cases like a seperate meter for an upstairs
As I understand it, the interlock system are not allowed by the code, but are often "passed". Problem with my box is that the breakers flip the opposite direction from the breakers anticipated by the interlock systems. I'd have to have fingers that reach around the switches and lock out on the outside edge. Other problem is that there's no room in the box for the extra breakers for the generator inputs. It's just much easier/safer to leave it alone.
If that is the concern, metal conduit between the meter and panel would solve it. Seems you have some very strange inspectors. Where is this?
Based on what? Interlockit says they meet NEC. I've heard lots of people using and recommending them here, including electricians and haven't heard of any being failed.
What panel do you have?
Could you replace a couple with half size breakers?
Code doesn't have much room for "would solve it". It's all about rules and compliance. Trying to understand is futile. Arguing with the inspector is futile. Just comply. Oregon I've got no facts, just the word of someone I trust.
Let me know when you run a successful small business doing that. Did you factor in the cost of insurance? having your product tested and approved by Wyle Labs (probably 10's of thousands of dollars)? ...writing installation manuals? ...paying employees? ...paying federal, state, and local taxes? ...and last, but not least, making enough money to live on?
Maybe you can run a hobby business where your labor is free, but I doubt you can run a real business at those prices. If the raw materials cost $10 and they sell it for $150, trust me that they aren't left with $140 in the bank at the end of the day.
A good start would be to be able to cite the rules. From what I've seen so far, what you've claimed isn't backed up by the NEC. The NEC has no rule that says the panel breaker must be within one stud bay of the service meter. You claimed that the local concern might be with someone driving a nail into the wiring between the meter and panel. In which case, that would be solved by using metal conduit and one would think that if that were the local concern, the local inspector would be OK with using metal conduit as a solution.
I can assure you that there is plenty of wiring going on in Oreqon and everywhere else where the panel breaker isn't one stud bay away from the meter.
It would seem to me the real problem is someone needs to sit down with the inspector, the NEC and find out exactly what the issues are, rather than speculating. You claimed that having 30 ft of distance between the meter and the panel breaker violates current code "big time". IF it does, the inspector should be able to point to the NEC or local rule that specifically says that. Which is only reasonable, because if
30 ft is no good, then what is? 20? 10?
5? You have a right to know.
If that were the case, it would be very hard to wire up anything, would it not? Most inspectors I've talked to were willing to explain exactly what the issue is, the reqts, etc. and possible ways to solve their concerns. Did you actually talk to the local inspector about this?
Before you can comply, you need to understand what the actual rules are.
And that may be the whole problem.
No, we're not. You said the 1 - Interlockit specifically says their product meets the NEC
2 - Plenty of people here have reported using them, including electricians, at least some of them have been inspected, and I've never heard of a single one being turned down by an inspector.
3 -I'd like to see what specifically in the NEC leads you to believe the Interlockkit product is in violation?
One, I don't see any safety issue. Two, it sounds more like you just took some word of mouth from a friend and called it quits as opposed to looking at NEC and/or consulting with the local inspector.
Not to mention, based on his long history of posts, HeyBub is the last guy I'd expect to be bitching about a company being free to sell their product at whatever price the market will bear and reaping the rewards of their efforts. And that's exactly what they do. Products aren't priced based on the cost of materials. They are priced based on what will maximize revenue for the company.
To price figure that out, they would be looking at alternate solutions. A full transfer switch and installation is going to cost many times that $110. Which makes it looks like a good value proposition to me. If he wants to bitch about something, there are certainly far better targets. An example would be repair part prices for many appliances. $25 for a black plastic knob that goes on the end of a mechanical thermostat in a cooler, for example.
The restriction is not on length of service wires from meter to disconnect but length of service wires inside the building.
The code section is: "the service disconnecting means shall be installed at a readily accessible location either outside ... or inside nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors." (230.70 A-1)
With minimally protected service conductors you want problems kept on the outside the house. If the disconnect is distant from the meter the service is run most the way on the outside the building then inside and immediately to the disconnect.
Or the disconnect can be adjacent to the meter.
Or the service wires can be under a concrete floor and they are considered outside the building.
The interlock system linked to by james should be code compliant. So are the listed transfer switch units, some of which only handle a few circuits.
Another method that has appeared here before is to install a double pole double throw switch (not single pole) that switches to an "inlet", which is the reverse of an outlet. Switch ratings of 15, 20, and 30 amps are not hard to find. An extension cord from the generator plugs into the inlet. The switch, technically, would have to be rated to switch between power sources.
Any speculations on why the battery/inverter setup failed to run the furnace? I have a relatively new furnace, and I don't want its control board getting clobbered by a few spikes in the genny output.
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