One More Question Re House Circuit Breakers, Please ?

Hi again,

Should have asked this as part of my previous circuit breaker question, but forgot:

Is it common or typical for an "old" house service box circuit breaker (perhaps 25 yrs old) to go bad, and trip by itself, even if there is nothing wrong with the circuit it is controlling ?

What's a "typical" life for these things ?

Thanks again, Bob

Reply to
Robert11
Loading thread data ...

A lot of older Murray brand will do that. The internal latch that holds the handle in the on position, just stops holding and vibrations can cause them to turn off

Reply to
RBM

yes it is............ breakers are designed to become more sensitive as they age, and its more common for a breaker to become super sensitive if its on a heavily loaded circuit.

theres no set life. but do replace the questionable breaker

Reply to
hallerb

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote: ...

Have you any reference from a manufacturer that is a design criterion?

Don't say it isn't so, but I've never heard or seen it mentioned in any literature which one would think would be so if were an actual design feature.

I just did a search of the entire product brochure for the Square D QO breaker series and there's no mention of "age" or "aging" or "sensitivity" throughout.

--

Reply to
dpb

hey when there trying to sell you something NEW they dont mention againg might hurt sales.......

dont have a link of one even exists, but its true of all breakers.........

a matter of liability, as it ages it has to change.

I repair office machines for a living that draw lots of current.

customer complains its tripping breaker, replace breaker trouble gone provided circuit isnt overloaded.

some machines i service have breakers built in, and they fail sensitive.

breakers trip from heat, my theory is contacts degrade a little, heat and make things more sensitive.

I used to spend a couple days a month at westinghouse beaver, breaker manufacturer. back before it was sold off, a fascinating place. nice friendly folks, who told me more than i really wanted to know about breakers. i tended to have lunch with the engineering group who were the first to talk about more sensitive with age.......... had a bunch of machines in engineering.

Reply to
hallerb

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote: ...

Like somebody isn't going to buy a breaker because there's a data sheet that shows it's 20-yr future sensitivity--right. :(

...

If it were a serious issue (which theoretically it would be if sensitivity were to go the other way) in the spec's I'm quite sure it would be addressed in the design phase. (And, I'm _QUITE_ sure the major manufacturers do significant aging studies.)

--

Reply to
dpb

This doesn't apply to residential, but the large industrial building where I work is having the main breakers replaced in the near future. The only reason I know about this is that obviously the power will be out for the duration of the replacement, and they have warned all of the building tenants. Apparently there is some rule about replacing main breakers in industrial and/or commercial buildings at 5 year intervals.

Ken

Reply to
Ken

Ken wrote: ...

I'd guess it's something different than just a 5-yr interval...

--

Reply to
dpb

From my empirical information I'd agree that breakers become more sensitive with age, at least ones that routinely control loads close to their rated limit, but I've never heard or read that it was by any kind of design. Just more unsubstantiated blather Haller pulls out of his ass

Reply to
RBM

I was / am an electrical engineer for 40 years before retiring, and have never, ever heard of such a design which is deliberately engineered to become more sensitive as it gets older. This concept for a circuit breaker is pure nonsense in my opinion.

Smarty

Reply to
Smarty

...

That's what I think, too... :)

I can see there being an issue of a sizable _de_-sensitization w/ time if there were some physical process going on in the bimetal or similar, but I'd be quite certain if it ever was an issue it has been resolved long ere now...

--

Reply to
dpb

It's entirely possible that some aging process makes a breaker more sensitive, less sensitive, totally nonfunctional, etc. Such is the nature of any design, man made or otherwise. Things change as they age. I just wanted to make the comment that a deliberate electrical design to become more sensitive as time passes is not even slightly, remotely possible for a circuit breaker.

Now, if you wanted to argue that Detroit's engineers design shock absorbers that are deliberately designed to age in such a way as to have less shock absorption, then that is a whole different matter.........

Smarty

Reply to
Smarty

another device thats designed to fail in a benign way are cal stat thermostats. they are designed to go lower than their design temperature as they age.

in 30 years of using them for my job i have only ever seen one fail hot, while i have replaced a couple hundred that failed low...........

for liability reasons no one wants something that when it ages its dangerous

Reply to
hallerb

I have worked at a large industrial plant for 20 years and the plant was built in 1965. As far as I know the original breakers are still in use except for a few that have failed. There are breakers from 120 volts at 15 amps to the very large 13.200 volt main breakers. Nothing gets changed unless it fails or an inferred scan indicates it may fail.

Reply to
Ralph Mowery

That's been my experience in power plants, paper mills and coal mines/prep plants as well.

There are some generating plants built in the early 50s w/ much of the original electrical controls, switchgear, etc., ...

Reply to
dpb

On 4/8/2008 7:39 AM snipped-for-privacy@aol.com spake thus:

Ah, so it's another hallerb "theory". We can safely ignore it in that case.

Reply to
David Nebenzahl

no i report what westinghouse breaker design engineers told me........

they would change with age so they were made more sensitive to trip on less current than designed........

this was better than starting a fire..

i happened to be there one day when they were testing knock off westinghouse breakers, made in mexico. looked just like the ones they produced from the outside.

when taken to 120% of rated current they exploded, a real fireball. these breakers were high voltage distribution ones

so has anyone found a breaker that wouldnt trip other than FPE stab lock??

Reply to
hallerb

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote: ...

...

You'll excuse me if I wait to hear from the Circle-W engineers directly what they _actually_ said and see their design criteria...

--

Reply to
dpb

no i report what westinghouse breaker design engineers told me........

they would change with age so they were made more sensitive to trip on less current than designed........

this was better than starting a fire..

i happened to be there one day when they were testing knock off westinghouse breakers, made in mexico. looked just like the ones they produced from the outside.

when taken to 120% of rated current they exploded, a real fireball. these breakers were high voltage distribution ones

so has anyone found a breaker that wouldnt trip other than FPE stab lock??

I've seen breakers of all manufacturers fail. You think Federal is the only brand that's had that problem. Try Frank Adams or Zinsco. Personally I think the only difference is that Federal sold more product

Reply to
RBM

most breakers work when needed

Reply to
hallerb

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.