I bought a newly built house 3 years ago. At that time, I asked the
builder why it took so long, 3-4 minutes, before hot water came out of
the faucets when you first turned them on. He said that was the
I'm annoyed now that I have to wait so long for the hot water to come
out. The temperature of the water is fine and I have no problems with
running out of hot water. I want to know if there is something I can
install/replace to make the hot water get to the faucet quicker, in 1
minute instead of 5 minutes. And I have this wait with all of my
faucets, kitchen, shower and bathrooms.
Thanks for your assistance!
Plumbing is not my area, but it sounds like you do not have a hot water
loop. A hot water loop is when you run a pipe from the farthest point in the
house back to the hot water heater. It's a lot easier to have this pipe
installed when the house is currently under construction. As to what you can
do about putting one in, I myself would have to call a plumber.
Aint No Stinkin Viruses Here!
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
It sounds like your water heater is located a long distance from each of the
fixtures.. However, even in and extreme situation in an average home,
anything longer than 30 sec. it too much (sometimes it seems like 5 min.
when your standing there).
Try timing it and see if you haven't exagerated the wait time.
If in fact it is taking several minutes then you have a problem with water
flow rate.. Most residence are piped with 1/2" OD pvc or 3/8" ID copper
tubing.. Either way the cross section area is going to be about 3/8".. The
other factor would be the water pressure. Around 50 lb is standard but in
some home that could be as low as 30.
I just did a test of my furthest bath room, about 40 ft of 1/2" pipe run
from the waterheater.. It took 35 sec. to get warm water, 45 sec. to get hot
and about 55 till it was extremely hot.. My water heater is set at about 150
Some might recommend insulating pipes but that only prevents the pipes from
cooling off after you have run the hot water into them. Does nothing to
shorten your time when the pipe are already cold (30 min. after the last hot
Move the hot water heater closer to the main demand.. Have knowledgeable
plumer put in a hot water recirculating pump. This is used in some
commercial installations to keep the hot water at the tap at all times..
This method cost you money because of the pump running periodically and for
reheating the water as it cools and is returned to the water heater..
The last but most common solution is the 'on demand' water heater in each
bathroom.. These have no tank and heat the water as you need it.. but like I
say, you will have to have one for each bath and maybe the kitchen.. These
would be efficient, especially if you supply them from the existing hot
water line and leave your regular hot water heater on.. Once the hot water
from the regular heater get to the 'on demand' heater the electric element
will turn off..
(retired steam fitter/pipe fitter)
If it takes THAT long, your water heater is either located in the
neighbors house, or your house is WAY too big. People who build these
modern HUGE homes that are larger than barns, pay the price for their
firstname.lastname@example.org (PV) wrote:
Is it cold where you're at? It is not possible to keep the water hot when
it is inside the pipes. You're dealing with the time it takes to remove
the cold water from the pipe, heat the pipe, and then come out the faucet.
This time should get longer the farther you are away from the water heater.
The only way I know to change it is to install an instant hot water heater
at the source and I doubt you want to do that.
I've never head of a hot water loop but for it to do any good, each
plumbing run would have to have one and it would require a pump to run
Texas is a case unto itself. Where else will you find water heaters and
the associated cold water supply lines running in unheated attic crawl
spaces? Frequently without even a pan under the hot water heater. I
can recall seeing water pouring from the front door of homes in the
Dallas area a few years back when a cold snap hit at Christmas, power
went out and folks were away visiting relatives. All was well until
things thawed out. Much of Texas doesn't know what quality construction is.
For a thermosyphon to work the water heater needs to be lower than the
fixtures and that usually requires the water heater to be in the basement.
Even then the syphon won't work if there is any horizontal runs or dips..
I have worked on hot water heating systems, as a steamfitter, that were
actually single pipe systems. The hot water rises up the pipe and the cold
water goes down as. Actually the water never really travels or circulates.
The BTUs of heat migrate up through the column of water.. These primative
system are generally very simple with the hot water boiler at the bottom of
a column (pipe) in the basement and each hot water radiator is tee'ed off at
each floor level of the house.. I haven't seen one of these sytems for 50
years. Sorry for the 'flash-back'.
The water does move, albeit slowly. I had a problem with long delays in
getting hot water to my fixtures. My supply line (because I have a 40
to 60 psi well supplied system) is a 1" dia copper pipe so I needed to
dump about 6 gallons to move hot water from the water heater to the most
distant bathroom. A few years ago I ran a 1/2" return line at basement
ceiling height the length of my basement from that most distant bathroom
back to the water heater, a distance of about 150 ft. I teed the return
into the water heater behind the drain valve giving me an elevation
difference of 9 to 10 ft, insulated the supply and return lines and hot
water is now quickly available.
Recall that Henry Ford was able to cool his Model T quite well with a
thermosyphon and the height difference there is only about a foot.
On 1 Jan 2004 09:05:55 -0800, email@example.com (PV) wrote:
Strange you asked. I was up in my attic a couple of hours yesterday
because I had exactly the same problem. I bought some thick foam 3/4
inch copper pipe insulation and insulated my pipes from the water
heater to the end of the main trunk. Costs about $30.
But you probably don't have water pipes in your attic like I do. In
that case you are pretty much out of luck.
On your next new house, have the hot water lines wrapped in 2 to 3
inch insulation and wrapped in heavy plastic before you bury them.
This might be a consequence of running 3/4 feeds, as many new
houses have. Thus, more standing water has to be replaced before
the hot water shows up. I replaced my hot water lines with 3/8
flex, and now get hot water after 20 oz. of draw, with no
appreciable lessening of volume. But my runs are short.
that's bullshit. if you have a tank then it's full of hot water and the only
time you need to wait is the time it takes for water to each the faucet from
the tank, which is 10 or 20 seconds, not 4 minutes.
If you have a tankless water heater, I don't know how long you wait but I
doubt people would use those if waiting 4 minutes for hot water with the
faucet running would be the norm.
Don't jump to a conclusion so quickly. It took me at least 3 minutes to
get hot water. Flushing cold water from 150 ft of 1" pipe takes (about
6 gallons) takes 4 minutes at 1.5 gpm. At 2.2 gpm drops to 2.7 minutes.
Still a long time. Installing a thermosyphon dropped this to seconds.
j j wrote:
Instant hot water can be achieved by installing a RedyTemp. The unit
is loved by homeowners but not as many plumbers. The main reason for
this is RedyTemp's "super easy less then 10 minute install". You
can't bill much labor for a 10 minute install. And even less if the
homeowner installs it themselves. If you visit www.redytemp.com you
can see a movie of a 10 yr old girl install the unit is LESS THAN 3
MINUTES. Whether you need hot water fast, have pipes frozen, water
frozen in pipe issues, want to save water, save gas, save electric or
just want to save energy RedyTemp is ready when you are.
Hot water recirculators have been around for some time. But, most
people don't even know about them. I on the other hand believe I do
know alot about them...why? Because I did over 2 months of comparison
analysis of the different types / brands on the market. Anyone can
download this analysis which contains pictures, prices, and other
miscellaneous "facts" which I collected exclusively from the internet
during the 2 month study.
Why would I do a 2 month study? Because I was offered to purchase a
business, patent and trademark for a great sum of money. Just like
me, you would also put a great amount of thought, research, market
analysis before you spent a lot of your savings. The market analysis
which consisted of surfing the internet for hot water recirculators,
hot water on d'mand systems. There are roughly 8 different kinds
available on the market. They're priced anywhere from $149 through
$600 and more (this does not include the installation cost). Some
have wireless remote control activation (so you can just "press a
button remotely", if the non-standard camera battery in the remote
control has been replaced within the last 30 days, costing $15 dollars
or more every 30 days to replace, and you don't mind having one
clipped on your belt next to your cellphone so you don't have to chase
it down), some have "press button" to activate, some run all the time,
some run automatically, some have timers, some only work with "closed
loop" or dedicated hot water return lines (RedyTemp can be used on
either type of systems), some use the cold water line to return the
water back to the water heater (causing issues with warmy water in the
cold line, RedyTemp doesn't have this problem due to its patented
manifold and adjustable temp control capability). Some are noisey,
some are quiet. Installations range from 10 minutes to do an
installation....and others can take up to 3 hours or more and require
multiple plumbers type tools, draining of the water heater, cutting
and measuring pipe, soldering, running wires all throughout your house
to each tap / faucet (so you can press a button "every" time your
gonna use the hot water....and then.....stilll wait for hot water to
arrive), most require mounting to a solid wall, purging, calibrating.
Most void warranty if unit is run without water in the line,
accidentally or not (RedyTemp has run tests to ensure that this is not
an issue with our units). All these troublesome installation issues
often cause homeowners to shy away from the hot water recirculator
idea. Plumbers would much rather run a dedicated line back to your
water heater which takes "time" and materials ....thats where the
dollars can quickly jump from your pocket to theirs. I have nothing
against plumbers, they have families too and they provide a valuable
service to the community.
Throughout my research I discovered 2 consistant issues with all the
recirculators on the market as of 2004... The problems were the
installations were just too scary from a homeowners point of view who
has no plumbing experience (that included me) and the second thing was
that calcium / hard water more often then not made the recirculators
fail / clog within the first or second year and sometimes as quick as
a few months. I even heard a guy who had bought a brand, took it
home, installed it...thinking it was faulty due to the "not soo hot"
water which was being delivered, took it back to the store and stated
that it must be a bad one, got another one off the shelf, took it home
installed it...but, still the water being delivered was not hot. He
then took this second unit he had tried back to the depot store and
asked why the water was not so hot...where the plumbing dept person
working their stated that, 95degree's was the highest temperature that
any hot water recirculator could do (apparently he hadn't heard of a
All this dissappointing information I was discovering made me all the
more interested in the RedyTemp. Why? Because it was the "only" hot
water recirculator which over came the problems that all the others on
the market had not.. RedyTemp's installation was so simple it could
be compared to the difficulty of hooking up two garden hoses. The
movie showing a 10 yr old girl installing a RedyTemp in less then 3
minutes (available for download at www.RedyTemp.com) proves just how
simple it is. The calcium / hard water problem was also overcome by
the RedyTemp, by creating the patented manifold which is not made of
metal / copper etc., which we all know calcium loves to stick to, the
RedyTemps' manifold has never had a single unit fail in all its
history in business since 1994. Where all the others on the market
require "periodic" maintenance / cleaning schedule, the RedyTemp is
100% maintenance free. RedyTemp also is the only hot water
recirculator which has a patented temperature control capability,
allowing the homeowner to adjust how hot is enough and how much does
he want to regulate his savings.
Nonetheless, I became very excited and after speaking with previous
owners of the RedyTemp and previous owners of others on the market, I
did end up becoming the new owner of Temtrol Delta T. Inc., the
manufacturer of the RedyTemp Instant Hot Water Recirculator.
Hot water recirculators do work...but for how long and to what
efficiency is the only real mystery. What is not a mystery is that
there are over 3,000 satisfied RedyTemp users in America that love
their unit, couldn't live without it, etc. I myself, its just what
America needs. With the increase in population, the ever growing
concern for water shortages, the growing issues with natural gas and
electric, I don't understand why a RedyTemp is not in every home.
When a person waits and waits for hot water to arrive at their tap,
not only is water being wasted down the drain, but the local water
company is filling up your water heater with "very cold" city water to
replace the water thats going down the drain. This "extra" very cold
city water is having to be heated now unnecessarily. Most homeowners
I've spoken with think "so it saves water, how much does water cost?"
but what they don't realize, until I explain whats happening, is that
they're wasting not only water, but gas / electric to heat the new
water which has replaced the water you wasted down the drain while you
waited for the hot water in the first place. Lets not forget the
minutes that the lights were on while you waited..., day after
day...use after use...it really adds up.
Now, my research wouldn't be complete unless I also considered
tankless water heaters. This is a fairly new technology in America.
They are always very high in price especially after you factor in the
installation expense, inspections from local code enforcements. I've
read throughout the news groups and discussion forums that they just
cost way too much, and because of this homeowners often buy the
cheapest one they can find, only to discover that they didn't get the
right size for their home and because of this people are getting
bursts of very hot water while showering and doing laundry / dishes or
someone else in the home uses water at the same times. As for waiting
for hot water... plan on it. You will continue to wait for hot water
at you faucets / showers / laundry / dishwashers with a tankless water
heater. So.... the savings can be great, in exchange for discomfort
and having to wait for hot water. As for my opinion on the
Thermosyphon System, it would appear that as long as you have bright
sunny days, a solid roof, this system would save on energy cost due to
the fact that the sun would be heating any newly delivered city water
to the home (of course that is "if" its not night time and its bright
and sunny) but, this system still would not deliver "no wait" hot
water to the tap unless it was directly over the tap. Nothing beats
the RedyTemps flexible installation options, multiple control
capabilities, i.e. motion sensor integration, step switch, the
clapper, etc. and with a RedyTemp your limited to only the length of
the flex lines you use as to where you can place it in your home.
Meaning, you could pass the flexlines through a floor or wall and then
to the faucets.
I personally, am still very glad I bought the company, it still is the
superior product on the market and the only one that I know which
people aren't complaining about because "it" really works. Every
month a new customer calls too ask questions wanting reassurance that
the RedyTemp will not fail like the competitor product failed /
clogged so quickly... RedyTemp is time tested and continually makes
people glad they own one... day after day. Especially during the
winter months, thats when its really appreciated but we're not sure if
its due to the fact that the RedyTemp stops pipes freezing, frozen
water line problems in check.
Whether you need hot water fast, have pipes frozen, water frozen in
pipe issues, want to save water, save gas, save electric or just want
to save energy RedyTemp is ready when you are.
Thanks for listening to my two cents and hope you'll visit our website
to see what makes the RedyTemp the smart choice in Hot Water
Recirculators. The 30 day money back quarantee and 2 year warranty
doesn't hurt either.
Ignorance... you must be a plumber who needs work.... if you have
some comments, them speak them... but don't make other people not
learn the truth. The Testimonials on the website are not made up...
only your ignorance of new technology.
Don't forget that with the grundfos you'll have to do periodic
cleaning...as shown on their website and in the downloadable product
comparison study which can be downloaded at ....where else
www.redytemp.com oh, and don't forget to order a $36 dollar each
valve that you'll have to put at the faucets...
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