More on that runaway Prius...

[Oren]

Edmunds.com shows that trying to put the Prius in reverse will not work or damage the vehicle. The alarm beeps and goes right into neutral (70 mph).

Video:

[HeyBub]

Rule: "Fail-safe systems often fail by failing to fail safe."

[Jules Richardson]

I'm not sure what the total descent I did in this case was - it took a while to get to the bottom (with a stop partway down to give the brakes a rest!)...

Yes, I've always owned vehicles with manual transmissions in the past - the wife's Toyota (not one affected with problems ;) has a slushbox and I much prefer something with a manual, even if it's a clunky one.

I was going to say that I like to keep everything mechanical if I can - but then the elderly truck has a 3-speed manual with column-mounted shifter, so there's probably quite a bit of scope for something failing, given all the linkages involved!

I've normally had about 100,000 out of a clutch - I don't think I've ever figured out brake life, though; I just check periodically and do whatever needs doing.

Sure... I just did rear rotors on the Toyota (currently 170,000 miles on it) and I think they were $30 each side, and a similar amount for pads. The front ones are still the originals, with very little wear on them.

Absolutely. I wish there were more places folk could go to deliberately try out some of the "unexpected" stuff...

I've had cars before with hydraulic clutch mechanisms, so I suppose there's some opportunity there for something breaking such that the clutch doesn't operate - but it's not usually difficult to pull out of gear even without a clutch (and harder but not impossible to get one smoothly into gear without a clutch, too)

cheers

Jules

[Doug Miller]

WHO F**KING CARES if it over-revs the engine -- destroying the engine is a damn sight better than piling into a bridge abutment at 100+mph like that CHP officer did a while back!

[Ed Pawlowski]

"Doug Miller" wrote

In the case of the Prius in SD, I'd say the driver was faking it. Very suspicious circumstances.

[Bob F]

I've had a 2001 Toyota 4runner try to swerve me into the opposing traffic lane when the "anti-skid" brakes decided I was in a skid and suddenly applied the brakes on the left side during a wide right turn. I managed to keep on my side of the road, but I was sure unhappy with the brake action. It was a total surprise.

Turned out that one tire had low pressure in it. Apparently the brake system computer didn't know how to respond to a low tire on a turn. The fact is, trying to quantify all the parameters into a program is not necessarily going to handle all conditions safely. I feel much safer driving a car without anti-skid brakes since this incident.

[Harry K]

Yep on the hydro clutch. Blew the slave cylinder at the clutch out in the boonies on my f150. Started it in gear and used 2, 3 and 4 through back roads back to the house. Did have a problem with a few stop signs but California stops work ;)

Harry K

[Harry K]

ghts on."

> > com/leisure/2010/03/15/govt-explain-runaway-calif-prius-incident/

Same here with my Ford 500. I cannot achieve a happy medium. Drove a recent Focus as a loaner (f150 in for major tune-up) today and one would have to be a freak to be really comfortable.

Harry K

[Ed Pawlowski]

"JIMMIE" wrote

Did you see the latest on the news tonight? He hit the brakes many times in short burst (probably to heat them up) not in the long "stand on" he stated. Seems they wee found to be working properly.

[Ed Pawlowski]

"Doug Miller" wrote

Intentional heating by repeated application of the brake pedal according to the news. I thing we can stop speculating and assume the guy is a fraud.

[bud--]

A computer gets involved for regenerative braking. You think there are no brakes with a dead battery?

If you push hard on the pedal you get mechanical hydraulic braking - just like on any car when the power brakes fail.

This was verified by a Prius dealer service rep.

[camryguy]

Ok, I'm probably going to end up through the ringer by people on here, but thats beside the point. I am currently the owner of a 2000 Toyota Camry LE 4cyl. with 213,000 kms. I know its not a Prius, but I tried something with the car that surprised me. Recently I had all of my brake pads replaced due to wear. They were squealing and old and needed changing, but before I changed them, I did an experiment. I took my Camry on the highway (rated at 100 km/h) and slammed on the brakes while also applying the accelerator. The car stopped. I could smell the brakes burning, and she didn't slow down as quickly as normal, but the damn thing stopped. I know, there have been cases of unintended acceleration that were deemed to be at fault to Toyota, and I completely agree, but now, some of these claims are getting ridiculous. Sikes' claims that he was too scared to shift into Neutral for fear of control loss of the vehicle, but was able to try and grab the 'stuck' accelerator without incident? C'mon, something stinks with his story. Its more then just problematic pedals and faulty floor mats, its politics. Chrysler and GM are both children of the US government. As most investors would want, the government now wants to see that investment thrive. Toyota, being the new #1 seller of vehicles in North America is now the enemy and must be removed from their throne at all costs. I'm trying not to be biased here, but its kinda hard. It seems like every day, GM has a new recall, whether it be with the Camaro's wiring suddenly igniting the car on fire, or a malibus transmission that will without notice slip into Neutral while parked on its own. I have had my share of GM's. Nothing beats the trucks they put out, but the cars imo stink. I had a brand new Cavalier that was nothing but problem after problem. So, I ask, why can a 10 year old car manage to stop itself with old brakes while the accelerator is also depressed, but a 2 year old prius can't?

[Tony Hwang]

Hi, Your car was not running away. Wrong analogy. At this point no one knows for sure of what is going on.

[salty]

Really? Are you absolutely sure that the computer didn't malfunction and cause the ABS brake system to do all that alleged "pumping"? That's sort of what the ABS system DOES. That's just one possibility out of many that have not been investigated yet. Are you really ready to just take the word of a Toyota employee for what happened? Toyota's main goal is to get out from under this PR disaster.

[Doug Miller]

[...]

Oh, bullshit. He proved that the brakes are perfectly capable of stopping the vehicle even at wide open throttle -- which points directly to driver error (or driver stupidity) as the reason for the "runaways".

Only partially true. At this point, no one knows for sure why some Toyotas _seem to_ suddenly and spontaneously go to WOT. But we *do* know that *when* this happens, if the vehicle keeps going at high speed for an extended period,

*that* is due to panic, error, or stupidity on the part of the driver -- or, as appears to be the case in the Sikes incident, deliberate action.

[Doug Miller]

In article , camryguy wrote: [...]

It's not necessary to invoke elaborate conspiracy theories to explain the rash of "runaway acceleration" reports involving Toyotas. Mass hysteria is a more than sufficient explanation, and the news media are certainly fueling it.

[salty]

At this point, anybody who gets a paycheck connected to Toyota is automatically disqualified as a trusted source. They have a massive motive to mislead in any way possible.

Has any one proved that the ABS system couldn't possibly malfuntion and rapidly "pump the brakes" causing it to appear as if the driver had done so, when in fact, all he did was stand on the brakes?

Didn't think so.

[bud--]

Do you think it is reasonable that there is not a mechanical-hydraulic base function at the bottom of the pedal travel, just like there is on every car with power brakes - stops the car if the 'power' function fails?

So there was a failure in the throttle control and another failure in the ABS control? (Maybe they are Windows applications.) And this person had both failures? (Prius is one of the cars that has had throttle runaway.) And this person, coincidentally, also refused to shift into neutral as he was told numerous times?

The California runaway is sounding more each day like fraud.

[salty]

It's entirely possible that they are related, and one failure caused multiple systems to misbehave.

[Ed Pawlowski]

That is why representatives from the Highway Safety people were also involved, not just Toyota.

Yes, if you read up on them and how they work. You should also look at the report and how they determined the brakes were manually applied, not by the ABS. My guess is the driver had no idea how much information is recorded on his car and if he did, he would not have tried the fraud.

It may take some time, but he is probably going to share a cell with Balloon Boy in the future.