"landscape timbers"

[Eric Pawtowski]

The previous owner of my house made extensive use of what Home Depot calls "landscape timbers". Wood cut in a rectangular shape, with two sides cut curved and two cut flat.

They do not appear to have held up very well- most are rotted, and I don't think they are more than five years old. I'm ripping them out and replacing them with 'ground contact' rated treated wood and/or stone blocks.

Does anyone know what those 'landscape timbers' really are? Have they been treated in any way? New timbers at the HD are red, I cannot tell if it's simply paint, or if they have had any other treatments. Given the poor performance of the old ones, I do not intend to purchase any. I'm asking out of simple curiosity. I've tried web searches for information on them, but most of what I get is talking about rated pressure- treated wood, or railroad ties.

[default]

You used to be able to get them in either pressure-treated and untreated.

[Toller]

About 10 years ago I bought a bunch real cheap that had been treated with half the normal level of PT. They rotted out in about 5 years.

I expect that ones properly treated would have been more satisfactory, but I was foolishly looking for a bargain.

[Art]

Consider using 6x6", if you have corners.... interlock them.... don'tmake them straight. Use stakes plus anchors and you need gravel and a drainage pipe behind it. Also since they just got rid of the dangerous chemicals that made treated lumber work, you should be aware that you are testing the new stuff.

[Curmudgeon]

Dangerous chemicals? Scary, maybe...but not one instance of any major illness or disease linked to the old style PT lumber. But you will be paying considerably more....just so some safety nazi will sleep better.

[Art]

Unsealed PT lumber shown to lead to arsenic absorption when used for playground toys. Arsenic is a known carcinogen. That is good enuf for most scientists.

[Father Haskell]

Depends on when they were cut. Until this year, they were treated with arsenical CCA, which has been replaced with the much less satisfactory ACQ. Ground contact rated footings, which were a good idea with CCA, are an absolute necessity with ACQ.

Oval "landscape timbers" are what's left of logs after being shaved into plywood veneers on a veneer lathe. A couple, three trips each side through a surface planer produces the flat top and bottom faces. Being the centers of logs, aka "center shakes," they're the poorest quality cut, primed with interior tension which leads to warping, twisting, bowing, splitting, and various other headaches a few years down the line.

Probably oxidation, probably temporary.

[Eric Pawtowski]

I only used 4x4" PT timbers. This is not a high-stress structure. The 'walls' I'm making are not very tall. 8 inches to a foot in height, or so. Timeber ends don't line up, I mostly did that by using a mix of 8' and 10' timbers. That way I didn't have to make many cuts. Where I did have to cut an end, I let it soak in 'end cut solution'. Anyone have any idea if that stuff really helps much? Wall will have gravel and drain pipe behind it when finished.

Bored holes in the timbers, soaked the inside of the holes with 'end cut' solution (that wasn't easy) and drove steel stakes through them into the ground. Timbers are attached to each other both by 3.5" "deck-mate" screws driven at an angle from one timber into the one beneath, and by galvanized 'strong-tie' metal strips running from one timber to another with 1.25" 'deck-mate' screws holding them in. I keep hearing that the new PT wood is more corrosive than the older style, so I'm hoping at least one of those techniques will hold the wall together. On about half of the 'strong-ties' I painted the face that touches the wood with rustolium before attaching them, will see if that makes them last any longer.

[Harry K]

Yes, they are "peeler cores" and about the poorest quality stuff you can use in contact with ground even if they were treated.

Harry K

[JerryMouse]

Not any scientist I ever heard of. Arsenic is a naturally-occurring substance. It was present in treated lumber in trace amounts well below that normally found in nature and way below any level known or thought to cause problems for (any-sized) human.

Nope, "Enviornmental Nazi" is a good description. Same people who brought you asbestos abatement and banned breast implants. Bunch of loonies.

[Art]

Then you must know dump scientists. Natural does not equal safe. Anthrax is natural too. So is polio and uranium.

[Childfree Scott]

Just get some untreated ones and put at least 3 coats of oil based polyeurethane on them and they should hold up pretty good, I'd imagine.

[Art]

Sounds like termite bait to me.

[Art]

Then go eat some for breakfast.

[Harry K]

Perfectly safe as long as you stick to the doseages you would get playing on the playground equipment. Yes it is carcinogenic -in large enough doses-. As someone else pointed out, there have been no confirmed instances of harm done by children playing on the stuff.

Harry K

[Tony Hwang]

Hi, No matter what it's toxic. Why bother knowing that? Every individual has different tolerance to toxic effect. Because we are born with different gene structure. Even twins are not identical. Tony

[HA HA Budys Here]

Well, the 1% who have no tolerance for what 99% of this planet's inhabitants have no qualms about, should just die anyway, or at least permitted to become so damaged they will fail to reproduce.

As a species, we should be permitted to continue to evolve into stronger beings, but due to all these whiney ultra-liberal crybabies, 20% of us are now allergic to PEANUTS.

[rj]

What happened to "survival of the fittest"?

[Tony Hwang]

Hi, You're dead wrong. Toxic environment we're presenting to ourselves is too much for our body to take care of. I am in health care field. You don't know how much toxic garbage people carry within themselves. You don't take seriously when experts like Dr. Suzuki talks, do you? People like you're part of problem, not solution. Tony

[Harry K]

Well since you and your ilk have managed to ban a perfectly safe treatment we are stuck with poor replacements.

Harry K