Quick question. I am going to remodel my attic. I have yet to install the knee walls and the framing necessary prior to the installation of the electrical components. I want to get a firm quote on the electrical before I proceed with the framing. I got an estimate from an electirician to do all of the electrical, bring addn'l lines up from the basement etc. Several days after he visited my home he gave me a verbal estimate of the total cost over the phone. No real details were included. I then asked him to provide me with a written estimate. He declined. He said he wanted to wait until he was ready to start the job. I feel that he should be able to provide a written estimate of the costs now. Am I being unreasonable?
*Always* get these things in writing. However, maybe the guy wants to see the situation after you finish your part of the work. Once it's reached that point, if he still won't put it in writing, move on to the next person.
He may not get a written estimate for this job. The first contractor would lose anyhow when you provide the written estimate to the second contractor and ask him to beat that price.
Maybe. Right now some materials are fluctuating in price a couple of times a day. One of my suppliers was not getting pricing from his mill (plastic wrap) until time of shipment, four weeks after a order was placed. Heck of a way to do business.
Perhaps the guy just wants to cover his ass in case materials change. I had a price on some electrical work six months ago. If I was going to proceed today, the materials have gone up 20% in some items. Not a big deal on adding a single receptacle, but huge on a major power increase with transformers and 1000A service.
In writing is best and recording work changes by phone a good back up. Often contractors will say " you missunderstood " if its a phone order, a recorded conversation saves you from that headache.
Hey, let him "have at it". If he doesnt want to give you a written estimate, he may be working for you for free. He says $3000,....you say $2000. Without his estimate in writing no judge will grant him a thing. Bubba
You have every right to expect a quote in writing. You may expect the job to cost something close to the quote. You won't neccessarily get either.
A written contract detailing the work to be performed and the costs involved is not unreasonable for a project. You can also include time for completion etc etc etc. Any quote usually has an expiration date for acceptance.
Some contractors will pass on the job, some won't.
Nonsense. If there is no contract a judge will give him a fair market value for the time and materials he put into it. Let me rephrase that; a judge should... Judges, especially small claims judges, are capable of doing just about anything; without any regard to either the law or common sense.
So, it is certainly best to have a contract to avoid such problems. Let me rephrase that also, to reduce such problems; no way to avoid them.
Nonsense my ass. Any judge finding a legitimate contractor doing work without something in writing will have a field day with that contractor. A contractor should know better and the judge will prove tha pointt by showing him an expensive lesson. However, you are correct in that a judge can also do whatever the hell pleases him. Thats why a contract is best. Bubba
"Hey, let him "have at it". If he doesnt want to give you a written estimate, he may be working for you for free. He says $3000,....you say $2000. Without his estimate in writing no judge will grant him a thing. Bubba "
I don't know what legal theory this is based on. If this winds up in court after the work is done, with a dispute over how much the job was supposed to cost, a judge most certainly will award the guy something. How could it be fair to let a homeowner just walk and have the work done for free? And if the contractor has a witness to the verbal contract and the homeowner doesn't, guess who he's probably gonna believe.
"Nonsense my ass. Any judge finding a legitimate contractor doing work without something in writing will have a field day with that contractor."
Toller is right. These cases wind up in court all the time. A written contract is an absolute requirement for a few things, real estate being one of them. For a home wiring job, it's certainly a good idea for everyone's benefit to have a written contract. But absent a written contract, you can still have a verbal contract. And if these two parties went ahead with this job, that's exactly what you would have. This stuff winds up in court all the time. And if the contractor has a witness and the homeowner doesn't, guess who's likely to win. And if the judge can't decide who to believe, he will still likely award what he believes to be a fair value for the job.Why anyone would think a tradesman deserves to be stiffed, is beyond me. It's not like there aren't lots of shyster homeowner's around too, that are looking for a deal and then wind up trying to cut a better one when the work is done.
"Write your own specifications regarding the equipment, style, brand, model etc. of what you want him to install. Describe all the details. Have a floor plan showing where to install everything. Detail what items are to be on each breaker. Dimmers. Switched outlets. And so on. When he gives you a final price get him to write it on a copy of your specification sheet and have him sign it."
I can also tell you that you are not likely to get a written estimate on small jobs. Something verbal or a number written on the back of a business card. They don't have the time to do anything detalied just for something like that. You need to specify exactly what they are doing (how many receptacles, how many light switches, or even what their ball park esitmate was.
Ignoring a number of the non-answers so far in this thread, I'll try to answer your direct question:
-- No, you are not being unreasonable in requiring a written/signed estimate.
-- Yes, you are being a little unreasonable to require a written/signed estimate when the contractor has not seen or evaluated the physical site to figure out what he needs to buy/ship/source/pay plus labor.
Also remember, an ESTIMATE is just that: an ESTIMATE. It is NOT a guarantee of the actual price you'll pay when the job is completed! That's why the written/signed estimate is important and why it should be detailed: It's there to compare the estimated work against the actual work when all is done. If there was more work required done than in the estimate, you pay for it. If less, then the bill should drop accordingly. You'll have a tough time getting a guaranteed price for a job unless it's painfully obvious to the contractor and he's positive what he needs to do and what could go wrong as he does it, OR he knows he guaranteed high enough he doesn't care what he runs into. Two way street, in other words.
A verbal contract is just as binding as a written one. It all depends on who the judge believes. And when the contractor shows up with actual jobs for similar work for $3000 and says "judge, why in the world would I quote 2000 when I know it would cost me $3000", the judge would probably have a hard time not believing him, especially when it's your turn to testify UNDER OATH (doesn't that mean anything anymore?) and you keep changing your story because you're lying through your teeth.
Contractors are not always good office managers or clerks. He does not want to take the time to write a detailed estimate and you then say "oh, it is more that I thought, I'll wait a couple of years" but the does not give him back his hour
Another is that you will take his carefully prepared estimate and hand it over to other fly by night cheap contractors so they can beat his price. With nothing in writing, you don't have that bargaining chip to hold over a more hungry contractor's heat.
Lastly, he may not give damn. He may have more work that he can handle and just does not want to spend a lot of time yet on a non-customer. The electrician I use at work does not care much about you when he has regular customers like me that pay fast, pay his fair rate, never hassle, etc. If he was working on your house and I called for an emergency he'd just walk away and come to our place. I know that for a fact because he has done it a couple of times, that last being after a flood in October. He was there in a half hour and worked two solid days. You would have just waited.
Yep, it is reasonable, but estimates are not binding, so it isn't worth the paper it is written on.
If you want a definite figure for a specific set of tasks finished during a particular timeframe, ask for a quote. That'll be binding, assuming you accept it without asking for changes.
The contractor (and make SURE he is a contractor) OFFERS to do the work for a price.
The owner ACCEPTS the offer, and they have a CONTRACT.
If there is no written offer, there can be no contract. Verbal agreements are worth the paper they're written on. They are enforceable, but only if you 're lucky, and if you DO win, you don't have much of a chance of relief.
You should ask your "contractor" to have their insurance company (ies) send you documentation of worker's compensation coverage, liability coverage, and surety bond.
If they don't do this, they aren't a contractor. Or not a good contractor. You may be the general, or owner contractor on the job, and be allowed to hire subs that don't have a contractor's license, but it CAN get complicated from there. Laws vary from state to state.
Bottom line, if you want to be more sure that it's done and done right, hire a contractor. I said more sure, because there isn't any guarantee that you won't have problems with a licensed contractor. But you are less likely to. With subs and unlicensed contractors, it can turn into the attic job from hell.
I would say if this person won't put it in writing, they're not a contractor. Be wary hiring them. Buy all materials yourself and save money. NEVER, repeat NEVER, let them get ahead of you in the amount of money paid versus the amount of work done.
Contracting without a license (even giving an estimate to do work) is a felony in my state, and they have FINALLY started enforcing it on these boobs.
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