You can make #1 the oil change as it is usually fairly simple.
#2 should be "trade in before warranty is up so the dealer will do all the work"
Getting tough to do simple things on cars the way the engine comparment is crammed.
Ed Pawlowski
The teacher said a list of fallacies on the first day where that was on the list (in different words). He said it's easier now than it's ever been.
Even though I couldn't keep it at 10, how's this dirty dozen list looking?
It's hard to put in an easy-to-hard order, but how's that looking?
Oren
The first lecture was all about the common fallacies of car repair.
His very first question on the board was "Why isn't your wife here?" Then he asked everyone in the class that question, and we said why. (Mine has never touched anything dirty or greasy in her life.)
As he wrote down the answers, an assistant (his kid?) passed out a sheet of paper which had every one of the reasons we each said, already on it.
He said they're universal whenever someone doesn't want to do any job.
For tools, he said at the price of repairs now the tools always pay for themselves, often on the first use depending on the tools & tasks.
He said learning is easier now than it ever was before, given the Internet.
He told us that anyone who tells us otherwise just doesn't like doing it which he said was ok but for us to simply recognize it as an excuse.
I couldn't keep the homework list at 10 given the input. How does this look, in a general order of easy to hard?
Mostly far beyond owner...
I don't know what the teacher's exact quote was, but if the intent was that repair is easier than ever, I'd strongly disagree--it may be that many what used to be common need for repair has disappeared with newer technology and better-built (in general) vehicles, but doing _anything_ almost is much more difficult than years ago simply owing to lack of access if nothing else.
One trivial example -- the battery in the Chrysler 300M (along w/ a bunch of other MoPar vehicles) was in the bottom of the RF fender well underneath other immovable stuff. There was an access panel inside the fender well, but to get to the battery even for routine maintenance required removing the RF wheel. In the Buicks it's either under the rear seat (Lucerne, other passenger vehicles) or in a box under a panel in the rear floor (Enclave). Again, both make for routine maintenance "ain't happening".
Even light bulbs often take an engineering degree to figure out just what pieces parts are necessary to remove the whole taillight assembly instead of just being able to remove a lens cover w/ a screwdriver and replace a bulb.
I'd give a starter list about like
Beyond that, on anything I've seen within last 10 years, you're starting to talk pretty serious access issues for the average owner...
I've said for ages if they would _just_ put 4-corner independent suspension, disk brakes and A/C on a '63 Chevy, w/ a modern 3.8L, I'd be more than happy.
I agree, that's generally true. Many jobs that would be $500 at the dealer, you can DIY for $50 or $100 in parts. And then there are the jobs avoided because when you know what's really wrong, what really needs fixing vs what may be BS the dealer is telling you, that could save thousands.
I agree with that. A service manual for $75 and all the resources on the internet, especially videos makes it easier than before. A classic example is pulling a door panel to fix a window regulator or door latch problem. Spending fifteen minutes on the internet, watch a video of someone actually doing it and you know where all the screws are, what size driver you need, what holds it on, what order you need to take stuff off, etc.
Also, to do many repairs, it can be a big time saver today if you have diagnostic tools similar to what the dealer has. I have that for the BMW and I can read out all the modules, engine, HVAC, Lighting, ABS, Airbags, etc. And read the status of the various components, switches, exercise them, send them a command to move or turn on, etc. Without that, you're at a big disadvantage.
On the other hand, there is truth to the fact that what it takes to do many of the repairs today is more involved than it was decades ago. Old cars didn't have all the extra stuff under the hood that modern cars do, space was not at a premium, so there was usually a lot of room between components, you didn't need to take X and Y off to get to Z, etc. As an example, if the oil pan gasket leaked in an older car, usually it was no big deal, you could access it easily, it was right there. Now you may have a big stiffening plate that has to come off and then the engine mounts have to be loosened and the engine lifted in order to do the job. That's about an order of magnitude more work.
I'd add CV joints. That's a common repair. Where these jobs fall on the list of difficulty depends in large part on the actual vehicle. A Porsche 911, good luck doing a spark plug replacement on that for example. Which is why it's a good thing plugs are good to 100K now.
dpb
The teacher was clear that if the owner does not want to get their hands dirty, that owner will come up with all sorts of excuses as to why.
His point of asking why our wives were not in the class (it was all men), was that those who want to learn, will learn.
Those who don't want to learn, will never learn and they may tend to make up excuses like our wives do as to why they can't learn anything.
He said a lot of things are easier now than ever before, which in my notes are that he said that the Internet has videos that didn't exist when he started out (he is long ago retired), and that cars last longer now than they did before, and that fluids are a lot better now than they were before (he showed us old brass radiators with crud inside the openings), and that maintenance is less now than it was before (he spoke about not needed into put water in the battery and that spark plugs last longer now than they did before), and even he joked the "air in tires" is better now (he called it "green air") than it ever was before.
He talked about light bulbs actually, which I had forgotten about.
He said that long ago the Europeans had bright lights. But in the USA, they wouldn't let us have bright lights.
He mentioned that it was all about making money (not safety). He said the government forced them to allow us to have bright lights.
Then he said LEDs came into the picture where they last longer. So you just replace the entire light assembly if the bulb ever burns out.
He said LEDs might last the entire life of the car nowadays. I don't know if that's true as my car has no LEDs as far as I know.
Do LEDs now last the life of the car? If not, I might need to add them to the list during the tuneup period.
I'd agree most are beyond the typical owner.
I think that's generally true, but it all depends on the particular repair and the vehicle. Air filter is a little more involved than when it was a round one on top of the carb, but I've done BMW and Honda and they were 5 min jobs, the box is right there with clips holding the cover on. On the other hand getting to say an alternator or water pump I don't think generally is what it used to be. There is more stuff in less space, so you have stuff in the way and not nearly as much space to work. On the other hand, if you have the right diagnostic equipment that can connect and read everything out, that can save a lot of time. If you don't know what's wrong, have say a rough running engine, good luck figuring that out without the diagnostic tool.
How about the heater blower? Decades ago, they were right under the passen ger dash, easy to replace from underneath. The BMW I had to pull the whole das h because it's buried in the center. And to pull the dash, you first have to pull the center console. So it was steering wheel, transmission shift, dash, center console, just to get to it.
Or how to get the freaking connectors off or apart. BMW likes to use about every different variety there is, all different and few that you have any idea how they come off by looking at them. And that's assuming you can see it.
I told him in another post that he should add CV joint replacement to the list, that's a common repair, more common than the struts or shock absorber s.
Ditch the timing belt/chain replacement. There's way too many opportunities in that task to really do your engine in unless you know what you are doing. Ditto with strut replacement.
trader_4
The teacher said he was in the military where he was an expert in excuses.
He was adamant that people spend more time on excuses than on reasons for doing any distasteful job. He kept saying that the time wasted on excuses would be better spent on learning how to do the job right in the first place.
He spent a lot of time on the excuses, probably half that first 90 minute class, where the sheet of blue paper the kid handed out had all the reasons we each said was why our wives were not there were all already on it.
He said the excuses for not doing any job are universal. He said the military is great for excuses which is where he learned this.
He kept telling us that it's OK if someone doesn't want to do a job. He just told us to recognize the reason as an excuse & not a real reason.
I forgot about worn ball joints, u joints, and cv joints! Plus maybe wheel bearings? (Do they wear out in the first 100K miles?)
Thank you for that suggestion. I will add these wear items to the list.
Probably with the shocks and struts.
Do they need an "excuse"? It's not necessarily an issue of getting their hands dirty.
Like DPB said, that just means that those things last longer, need to be replaced less often, etc. It doesn't make the work involved with actually doing the job if it has to be done easier. I think you'd find that replacing a belt, water pump, alternator, etc is more work today than it was decades ago on most cars. Today you have ten pounds of crap in a five pound bag under the hood, packed into a small area. Decades ago, you didn't have the crap and the engine bay was huge.
He's got that completely backwards. Decades ago Europeans had bright lights and better lights. The lens and the bulb were separate. It was the govt here, Federal DOT that banned them, insisting we could only use sealed beams. It had nothing to do with money, AFAIK.
Theoretically, yes. In the real world, what happens after 10, 15 years of use, especially in tough climates with moisture, salt, I guess we're only beginning to find out.
I use a good johnson bar and pipe braced against the chassis, and then hit the starter a few times.
Which is the ONLY thing easier today - and even there, on many cars the info is NOT available from the manufacturer,and often the information on the net is pure BS at best. (and overtly dangerous in others) I'm a retired auto mechanic with a lot of experience - as well as a former automotive mechanics instructor. I still do a lot of my own maintenance - but without the use of a friend's hoist out at the hangar, there is a LOT I would not attempt (some of which I "might" still do if I was 25 instead of over 65.
As an instructor I wouldn't be encouraging novices to tackle a lot of what you are talking about.
Well go ahead, believe what you want to believe, that instructor said it, must be true. BTW, are you growing all your own fruits and vegetables? Raising chickens for eggs and meat? Do your own dry cleaning? Process all your waste into compost? Who the hell is that instructor to decide what are excuses. Why don't you ask him where he gets his eggs. He already sounds like an asshole to me.
Lets dump this troll. I'll bet he's an electrical enineer that has posted here under numerous names over the last several years about things like aligning his front end etc.
If not, he' a "brother from another mother"
Without the car you are talking about "easy to hard" is impossible to assess.
True My neighbor is a veteran shade tree mechanic and it took him and a kid 2 days to replace a headlight bulb in a recent model Cadillac. They had to take a bunch of stuff off to get to it.
I know all I need to know and as farmer I get more than dirty enough -- my time is far more valuable doing other things than routine automotive maintenance that don't have the facilities to do easily owing primarily to the excessive complications that have been introduced over the last
30 years and particularly the last 10 or so.That would be the N nonsense...which, while there's some reason for it in aircraft where they fly at high elevations, there's virtually no benefit of any reality to be gained in passenger vehicles...it was a fad that's pretty-much run its course as near as I can tell (and for good reason).
Well, he's mostly wrong there, too...there were DOT mandates but they were primarily safety-related/motivated. The high-intensity lights of the time, while a real boon to the vehicle with them were also often blinding to oncoming traffic and so presented a real danger until the better aiming and beam control was developed.
Have you priced one of those recently? May be $200/ea instead of maybe $9 - 40, depending on just what conventional lighting may have. They _better_ last but again we're not going to know how good they stand up until they've been in use in real world situation for a while. Lab and bench and some simulated rough-use may or may not actually do well at predicting actual results.
The operative word there is "might"...
...
I recognized him from the getgo. He confirmed it with his talk about "excuses" for not doing it yourself. Like his thread about his Harbor Freight tire mounting tool where he pretty much had the same argument about changing tires. All harmless trolling.
Clare Snyder posted for all of us...
Or they will blow themselves right out of the engine - like a generator at work...
Clare Snyder posted for all of us...
You mean Arlen?
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