Home Inspection Beyond the Breaker Box and with Power On

Forgot to add the extra piece of humble pie for me today: The panel did hav e a modification, adding wiring for the garage door opener and two garage o utlets. It must have been done post the initial inspection of the house man y years ago. The Romex connector was left off this modification. The three breakers were not labeled until I figured out what they powered just a litt le while ago.

I didn't realize he was the seller and this inspector was for the buyer. I've been the seller and have been present for the inspection. Since he was working for the buyer, I didn't follow him around, but I was there if he wanted to ask anything. But, another strategy is maybe you don't want to be around for him to ask questions. What I meant was as a buyer I would always be there for the inspection.

Agree, if it's romex, which is typical, it needs to have a clamp on it where it enters the panel. If there is a cable there missing a clamp, it should be obvious from the outside. There are 25 other circuits there to look at and you would think even a hack could play monkey see, monkey d, but as you point out, it's not unusal for someone to foul it up.

ave a modification, adding wiring for the garage door opener and two garage outlets. It must have been done post the initial inspection of the house m any years ago. The Romex connector was left off this modification. The thre e breakers were not labeled until I figured out what they powered just a li ttle while ago.

FYI, GFCI protection has been required for garage outlets for a long time, at least the 80's. So this should either be a GFCI breaker or the first outlet in the daisychain in the garage should be a GFCI outlet. That will protect it and anything downstream of it. Not sure if the garage door openers need to be on GFCI, they may be exempted.

Would be interesting to see if those are there and if the inspector squaked it. Of course if it was an older home, before it was required, then it's OK.

Thanks Bud. Looks like you are right. I guess I didn't remember correctly what I had researched before.

Here are the NEC citations that I just found that appear to be applicable:

all switches, switching devices, and circuit breakers where

used as switches.

circuit breakers, and molded case switches, where mounted

in an enclosure as described in 404.3, shall clearly indicate

whether they are in the open (off) or closed (on) position.

Where these switch or circuit breaker handles are operated

vertically rather than rotationally or horizontally, the

up position of the handle shall be the (on) position.

Exception No. 1: Vertically operated double-throw

switches shall be permitted to be in the closed (on) position

with the handle in either the up or down position.

Exception No. 2: On busway installations, tap switches

employing a center-pivoting handle shall be permitted to be

open or closed with either end of the handle in the up or

down position. The switch position shall be clearly indicating

and shall be visible from the floor or from the usual

point of operation.

circuit breaker equipped with a lever or handle, or a poweroperated

circuit breaker capable of being opened by hand in

the event of a power failure, shall be permitted to serve as

a switch if it has the required number of poles.

FPN: See the provisions contained in 240.81 and 240.83.

ARTICLE 240-OVERCURRENT PROTECTION

shall be mounted in a vertical position unless that is

shown to be impracticable. Circuit breaker enclosures shall be

permitted to be installed horizontally where the circuit breaker

is installed in accordance with 240.81. Listed busway plug-in

units shall be permitted to be mounted in orientations corresponding

to the busway mounting position.

VII. Circuit Breakers

trip free and capable of being closed and opened by manual

operation. Their normal method of operation by other than

manual means, such as electrical or pneumatic, shall be

permitted if means for manual operation are also provided.

whether they are in the open "off" or closed "on" position.

Where circuit breaker handles are operated vertically

rather than rotationally or horizontally, the "up" position of

the handle shall be the "on" position.

Thanks for the follow-up. It's always good to hear how it all worked out.

All 15 and 20a 120v receptacles in a garage need to be GFCI and he has been that way for several cycles.

P.S. I think I may have been confused in the past by the last citation (240.33), the last line of which says, "Listed busway plug-in units shall be permitted to be mounted in orientations corresponding to the busway mounting position."

I think I assumed that meant that "listed busway plug-in units" (circuit breakers?) could be mounted in the orientation that corresponds to how they are plugged into the busbar.

But, I may have been misunderstanding what that sentence means since it seems to conflict with the sentence before it.

ARTICLE 240-OVERCURRENT PROTECTION

You be dissin me, blood, I bust cap on yo ah.

more. I called a local licensed, bonded and insured electrician to get some kind of estimate on the repair and an inspection of the panel. He said email him the report photos and he could come out for a free estimate. Twenty minutes later, he's at the house. Twenty more minutes, $45, two Halloween Snickers bars, later, he had the simple Romex connector in, educated me a little in excellent teaching style, inspected the panel, and invoiced the charges. He left the breaker shut, said no big deal, and had his hands on the sheathing of the wires.

Sounds like a tech who knows what he's doing. I sure hope you recommend him to every one you know.

Second update: I feel like not only a jerk but am humbled. All posts read; where people made light of the journey of home selling is appreciated for the laughs (the best medicine). Pardon for not calling out everyone by name. Thanks again all.

Not to worry. We all had to learn about thing we are not familiar with.

Pulling the panel cover on the average panel is safer than crossing the street. Particularly if you know anything about the panel. Reaching in without knowing what you are doing is foolish.

A good home inspector SHOULD pull the panel cover. He can tell a LOT about the condition of the wiring from that one simple check. He knows if extra wiring has been improperly added to the panel. He knows if the house has copper or aluminum wiring, or a mix of the two. He can tell if there is a problem with the line or neutral busses - signs of overheating. - and a lot more.. If a home inspector hired by me does NOT pull the panel cover, he didn't do the job I hired him for. And he better have a 3 lamp outlet tester in his pocket, and use it, too.

If the house has aluminum wiring he better spot check a few outlets and switches to see if it has the required co-alr devices installed, or pigtails.

If he finds anything suspicious, he needs to mark on the report that the electrical system should be checked by a qualified professional.

Not required to be retrofitted unless major renovations are done.

I submitted my recommendation of him and the company he co-owns, and the essentials of why, to the "Services" section of my 1000+ home neighborhood's web site within an hour after he left.

he co-owns, and the essentials of why, to the "Services" section of my 1000+ home neighborhood's web site within an hour after he left.

I hope he has plenty of business. And that plenty of customers have good inspections.

True only if the receptacle will accept a standard NEMA 5-15P/5-20P plug, if I remember the relevent code section correctly. This allows non GFCI branch circuits in the garage for stationary power tools. Such a tool might use a NEMA L5-20R (although for a good table saw, it's more likely to be a NEMA L6-20R).

id have a modification, adding wiring for the garage door opener and two ga rage outlets. It must have been done post the initial inspection of the hou se many years ago. The Romex connector was left off this modification. The three breakers were not labeled until I figured out what they powered just a little while ago.

I pull covers without turning the main off all the time. It's not that big a deal. And I'm surprised you were missing a clamp. It's pretty obvious that there has to be one when you look at all the other existing wires.

You'd be surprised at what you see in houses where a "handyman" thinks he knows more than he does. When I was looking for a house 32 years ago and bought the one I now own, I saw one with a beautifully finished basement - where the whole basement was wired with 2 conductor iron core outdoor telephone wire, and there were no clamps on any of the boxes. Another one where the basement had a suspended ceiling, and all of the lights were wired with lamp cord, plugged into 2 outlet boxes hanging from the joists.With Cube Taps. Didn't look to see what the outlets were wired with. All kinds of strange und stupid stuff

I've seen similar. Years ago I was doing a lot of work in new housing developments where homeowners were finishing the basements themselves. These people had no clue and thought what they were doing was OK. Hey, I'm only going to plug a lamp so it should be OK.

I had another home inspection today. The buyer's realtor was there and ques tioned why neither of the two bathrooms had GFCI receptacles. The inspector looked a little confused (the realtor was making jokes throughout the insp ection, while I waited outside) but added that GFCI was recommended in the bathrooms and withdrew from the discussion. The electric panel was inspecte d in 1995 when the house was built and has an inspection sticker for same.

What I found subsequently is that one breaker in my electrical panel is lab eled "GFI - Garage." Opening this breaker shuts off power to one outlet in the garage and both bathrooms' outlets. None of these three outlets have GF CI test and reset buttons. The breaker looks the same as all the other brea kers in the panel. The outlet in the garage looks like what's shown here:

1. Could a GFCI outlet have neither a test nor reset button?

1. Could a GFCI breaker in a panel be not obvious?

2. Is it worth the it costs to buy a GFCI tester and test the bathroom out lets to see if there is GFCI protection of them somewhere?

1. My best guess is that the previous homeowner had a GFCI outlet in the garag e but replaced it. Should I put in a new GFCI outlet in the garage. Then wi ll I have assurance of GFCI protection in all three outlets? 15 amp or 20 a mp outlet?