You can trademark an otherwise generic word in certain context. Many of us use trademarked names for noncommercial purposes all the time. It can be a Ford Owner Club, or Star Trek Fan Club. Using the work Hamptons is not necessarily an infringement.
Google give over 4,610,000 hits for the word Hamptons and is it used by Hamptons Vodka, Nuke the Hamptons, and many others. I'd never live where there was an HOA though.
While I agree with what you say, the HOA in this case still has no right to stop his web site. We still have freedom of speech in this country.
I never have understood why people can't seem to recall that the first words of the first amendment are "Congress shall not".. For the most part, the first amendment covers only what government does. Thus, if I want to leaflet at a Mall, they can toss me out of the door barring a state law to the contrary because it is private property. Even then it would be a state law and not federal or constitutional question.
The HOA is ridiculous in its claim on trademark infringement. There have to be thousands of "Hamptons" type names around. The original, IIRC, describes a geographical area in New England.
Zaki's position on the gas lights is spot on. We do field investigations for HOA reserve audit studies. Gas lights are about as inefficient a way you can go to light an area that there is. Plus, they run 24/7 and that costs a lot. And that doesn't include the replacement cost of parts, and whole lights that are destroyed by various means.
And then, there's the safety issue re: gas. Anyone with a room temperature IQ has to agree that it is dangerous.
All the HOA stuff historically started in Florida, where retirees went, and the HOA situation evolved.
I hope Zaki countersues for infringement on his freedom of speech.
Trouble is, the lawyers are the ones who profit. People have won all sorts of judgments against HOAs, but they are costly.
Steve
"Nick Danger" wrote
Say what? They are about as totalitarian as you can get. The boards are full of people who have too much time on their hands, and have no idea how things work. People who do know how things work either don't have the time, or can't get the committee government to implement basic common sense logic.
Like reassessing costly dangerous lighting situations.
Steve
good! Maybe they'll stop you from being such a scumbag spammer.
Another amendment, I believe the 14th, extends these restrictions to the states - and it has been understood that this includes all lower lwvels of government.
And I have heard of court cases restricting HOA rulemaking, I believe on basis that HOAs are a level of government - nad have to obey the Bill of Rights. (IIRC - it has been years since I read the newspaper article saying that.)
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
Kurt Ullman wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@032-478-847.area.spcsdns.net:
ALL of the Constitution is a limitation *on government*. NOT any limit on the People.
Even on such "private property" -open to the public-,you still retain certain rights,and they are still subject to certain government regulations,such as health,safety regs,both state and Federal.
As people are so quick to say;"no right is absolute".
You can usually throw the bums out. All it takes is to round up a gang of people who are as pissed as you about the current officers and mob the annual meeting. All it takes is a little shoe leather and knocking on doors. It is somewhat like hearding cats but it can be done. I did it at my HOA. We ended up gertting the votes to let the deed restrictions die a peaceful death after they expired. We still have an HOA chartered under article 617 but we don't have the 720 deed restricted (liens, fines etc) community. Most HOA deed restrictions DO expire if the members don't show up to vote against renewal. They were running our community on about a 17% turnout at the annual meeting. We had 66% at the last meeting and the vote reflected that. It went two to one against the the establishment.
On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 04:28:46 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote Re Re: HOA demands resident's web site come down:
Precisely. Watch what happens to a HOA that tries to include racial restrictions.
Yeah. Although my point (which I missed rather badly from the looks of things) is that the 1st Amendment doesn't apply to private entities.
That would probably be state-specific depending on how they are set-up, assuming that what you read wasn't later overturned.
Even in the public areas, absent a state law to the contrary, there is no right of assembly, you have no right of free speech in that they can toss your behind for leafleting, etc. Even under this theory, it is a long stretch to suggest that the HOA is public.
But that isn't constitutional. That is related to the Civil Right Act. You don't have to be remotely conceived as a level of government to run afoul of that.
What you did was admirable. It is difficult to find enough owners who are residing there, find enough interested people, and find enough people who are willing to miss a TV program or two. I've had all sorts of experiences with HOAs on all levels, and it is quite a demonstration of the governing process, from the good to the bad.
Most people are unaware of even their CC&Rs, let alone how the laws and rules actually do work.
Steve
You have to be willing to get involved. I simply pointed out to the neighbors that the world is run by the people who show up. Usually you can swing a HOA meeting with 20 - 30 people. Sometimes you have to remind them several times and again the day of the meeting not to blow this off. After it happens people do walk away with a good feeling that they can make a difference.
Kurt Ullman wrote in news:kurtullman- snipped-for-privacy@032-478-847.area.spcsdns.net:
You should include this part you snipped;
I didn't claim any HOA was "open to the public".I was referring to a MALL.
Given that most Florida HOAs purport to exercise quasi governmental functions, and do so under authority provided them by state law, theres a real good argment that a Florida HOA is subject to the First Amendment and cannot restrict whats on that web site.
Your mall analogy is not at all applicable.
Okay, thread drift gets a little confusing to me at intervals. But then life gets a little confusing to me at intervals... But as I said, absent state laws to the contrary the Supremes have said that even the public spaces in malls are private property and no constitutional protections extend there to.
Wrong.
Looks like we'll see unless the dude chickens out. If that is how it works out then it means the HOA is NOT a private entity.
It is until the decision is made on whether or not the HOA is a private entity. If it is indeed a private entity, then it is not beholden to the First Amendment.
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