From the story above.
"Grievances and propaganda" is how the association's attorney described
the Web site's content, in a certified letter Aug. 9 demanding that Zaki
cease any use therein of the trademarked name The Hamptons.
on 9/21/2007 12:19 PM Kurt Ullman said the following:
They can't copyright the word 'Hamptons'. They might even be on shaky
grounds copywriting "The Hamptons"
"The Hamptons" is a common reference for the region in Suffolk County,
Long Island NY that is a summer home to many of the elite and famous.
See also this site:
The association's lawyer's letter to the web site owner stated that it
is forbidden to use the logos, trademarks, or designs of the community.
"19.3 Promotional Events: ... All logos, trademarks, and designs used in
connection with The Hamptons are the property of Developer, and the
Association shall have no right to use the same after the Community
Completion Date except with the express written permission of
Pursuant to Florida Statutes Section 495.15 1, the Association has the
right to bring a suit for injunction to defend its logos, trademarks,
and designs against anyone who wrongfully uses the same or similar
logos, trademarks and designs. That Section states as follows:
The owner of a mark that is famous in this state shall be entitled,
subject to the principles of equity and upon such terms as the court
deems reasonable, to an injunction and to obtain such other relief
against another person' commercial use of a mark or trade name if such
use begins after the mark has become famous and is likely to cause
dilution of the distinctive quality of the famous mark, as provided in
It does not state anything about using the name 'The Hamptons', or
Unless the website owner uses any of the logos, trademarks, or designs
of the developer, he is not in violation of the covenant.
This is just a feeble attempt to scare the website owner into taking the
Coincidentally, look at my sig....
They are trademarking it. Maybe, maybe not. They could TM The
Hamptoms in the context of a FL subdivision as long as it hadn't been by
another. They are for a specific service or range of services (or
products). There might be some attempt under the "passing off" part of
the regs, but I find it hard to believe that a Sarasota houing
development could be confused with a section of Long Island by too many
Yep. Which would have little to do with the trademarking of the name
for a Florida Subdivision. Although a quick search through the trademark
registry finds none for FL (Although I did find that apparently Racine,
WI holds the Hamptons of the Midwest, BTW a community).
Exactly! Has anyone even checked to see if there is a trademark owned
by this HOA?
A casinos in Las Vegas is currently having a dispute; regarding
It's a hard-won reputation for value, one the Plaza's owners want to
protect when the company that owns the posh Plaza in New York City
opens a $5 billion version of their butler-hosting, tea-providing
hotel on the Strip.
That's why Tamares Las Vegas Properties filed a complaint Thursday in
Clark County District Court to block Elad Group of New York from using
the Plaza name in Sin City.
Hofstadter's Law - It [a task] always takes longer than you expect, even when
you take into account Hofstadter's Law.
They could trademark a logo, for instance. Also although they use
the Hamptons as short hand, they might have a longer name the guy is
using. Also, aren't the Hamptons in NY a town and not a subdivision.
That might make a difference.
INAL. I tried to do a TM search and found about 500 just using
Many years ago the Miami Herald (IIRC) published a story about an
upset client of a law firm. He discovered the law firm did not have a
trademark for the firm, so he registered it. Supposedly, they paid
dearly to get it back.
Hofstadter's Law - It [a task] always takes longer than you expect, even when
you take into account Hofstadter's Law.
I live about 20 miles south of this homeowner. I have been in developments
in Florida since 1982. In one place I was a board member for more than a
So when I give you my thoughts on the subject I am not just blowing smoke.
The Florida statutes has one section on Corporations Not for Profit. Under
Section 617.0808 Removal of directors.
"Any member of the board of directors may be removed From office with or
without cause by vote or agreement in writing by a majority of all votes of
the membership." It goes on from there and those really interested can find
it all on line.
So my take on this situation is that 1) things are not all that bad if he
cannot muster enough votes and 2) As he was once a board member and the
president, no less, he was negligent not being conversant with applicable
I am not now involved with the HOA where I live. My wife contends that
involvement is grounds for divorce.
I would tend to agree. The web site should have "fair use" of the name.
Frankly, the game isn't worth the candle. He should contact the attorney
who wrote the letter and say he is changing the name on his site. It's
just not hard to burn up several $1000 in legal bills is a pissing contest
with a HoA. I believe the story mentioned a $10k figure.
Governments LOVE HoA just because the HoA's can do things governments can't.
They tend to be run by folks without much in the way of common sense.
When we were in the house search and ended up with us being where we are the
FIRST criteria we told the agent was NO Home Owners Association of the type
that can actually impose rules. Neighborhood associations are OK, of
Against the smart advice of his attorney? (see site) The owner hasn't
done anything wrong....
He should not contact anybody, but let his attorney do that!
"If things get any worse, I'll have to ask you to stop helping me."
message The HOA doesn't
have leg to stand on. Jeeeeze what a waste of time.
More than that: HOAs often have private roads paid by the residents,
private trash pickup, and private snow removal. The local government
still gets their 100% of the property tax, but doesn't have to pay for
the above mentioned items.
Those kind of gates that stay open as long as a line of cars keep passing
over it? The first guy presses his remote, and you could drive a semi truck
in after him as long as you get to the coils before the auto close mode
starts. And even then, some gates are set to open if another car comes
within the loops before the gate is closed.
I hear what you're saying, but gates are an item that provides a low level
Guards are a different matter. At some HOAs, they only have a day shift.
And they have only one guard. So, if he goes on rounds, no one to watch the
gate. And nine times out of ten, the guard can't run 100 feet or scale a
six foot fence. And are unarmed.
Fences, gates, and guards do not keep out the riff raff. They're like
monkeys. If they want in, they will just come in any way they can.
Some communities have 24/7 guards but more to the point, they all say
they are private on signs and you would be tresspassing if you went
in. The community my wife manages also has a very sophistocated camera
setup that can zoom in on the tag number. It might be possible to
"tailgate" someone through the gate if the guard was not there but you
would also have the resident you are tailgating to deal with. Bear in
mind, they know you are on camera too so your assault/tresspassing
charge will be a slam dunk in court. These people are serious about
security. That is why they pay all that money for gates, guards and
the cost of maintaining their private roads. Occasionally they do have
someone ram the gate, if it is a small car, that is where you will
find them. A big truck will get through. The last one at my wife's
place got a $12,000 bill for the gate, delivered by the sheriff, along
with the handcuffs for the tresspassing charge. They had excellent
pictures of the truck, the tag and the driver when he got out to see
what he could to to get his truck going again.
They also had someone break into the guard shack, trying to steal the
tapes. OOPS, it was on a LAN and the real pictures were on a hard
drive in the server room up in the club house. A felony
burglary/larceny charge went with that one. The guy stole the wrong
computer so they had him coming and going on camera.
BTW this is the "Gunshine" state, you can't count on anyone being
unarmed. Over half the guards I know pack "concealed". We just passed
a law that says you do not have the "obligation of retreat" anywhere
"you have a legal right to be".
More power to them!
Cameras with recording in a different location, preferably more than one
camera so that a perp gets recorded unless destroying all cameras before
being recorded (with recordings going to remote locations) by any of
the cameras. May as well have plenty of trees to stash a couple extra
And if I have to live in a country where any Joe can have a gun, then I
things are "less-bad" if there is a system allowing concealed-carry by
law-abiding citizens. (Whether by having a permit requirement and
application process, or otherwise by targeting arrestees and persons
producing "adequately suspicious behavior" and probationers and parolees
and persons-subject-to-protection-from-abuse-orders for personal searching
for weapons that they legally must not have and that everyone else is
allowed to have).
One comment of mine: Washington DC - it appears to me that they are
trying too hard to disarm those that would obey a municipal law to be
disarmed in a country where outlaws merely have to go out of town
(possibly by only a few miles into Virginia) to get guns that only outlaws
have in Washington DC. I see gun control working well on a national
scale, hardly on a provincial ("USA "state") scale, and negatively on a
Another comment of mine: Philadelphia trying for municipal gun control,
and trying to add restrictions to getting "concealed carry" permits.
What I would like to say there: What percentage of Philadelphians that
have concealed carry permits are committing gun crimes? What percentage
of Philadelphians that do not have concealed carry permits are committing
The statistics: In Philadelphia, people without concealed-carry-permits
are more likely to unlawfully/unjustly shoot you (or anyone) than people
with concealed-carry permits - despite the "fact" that those with
concealed-carry perits are supposed to be more likely to be armed!
In Philadelphia, gun crimes tend to be committed with handguns - many by
persons of age under 21, though USA Federal law does not allow persons
under 21 to posess a handgun. Legally in the USA, someone using or
handling a handgun while under age 21 is supposed to be under supervision
by someone of age at least 21 that "is in charge of the handgun in
question" and "adequately" supervising its use/handling.
This means "No Problem" if I let my hypothetical 12-year-old nephew or
niece operate my hypothetical handgun while I adequately supervise such at
a shooting range or my backyard in Berks County PA.
But a teenager with saggy pants in an inner-city Philadelphia
neighborhood has no business "packing heat". If approached by police
officers requesting ID and search, then:
* - Approached-person produces ID with proof of age at least 21, then if
that person is not on probation or parole then maybe constitutionally or
morally-by-USA-Constitution that person maybe should be "free from that
* - Person is unable to prove when approached by patrolling cops that such
approached person is allowed on basis of age and lack of probation/parole
status to be allowed to carry a handgun: Such person better not be
carrying one. However, evidence of being a criminal other than such gets
to being a matter of "warrantless search", and penalties could easily be
limited to confiscation of what the questionee is barred by law to posess
if this process occurs on public property or a "public easement" such as a
sidewalk or in or on grounds owned/leased by a "public accomodation" (such
as a business open to the public as opposed to something being to at least
some arguable extent a "private club").
- Don Klipstein ( email@example.com)
Probably depends on the original set-up. The developers around here
put in the roads, get them inspected by the city and then they are given
to the city or county. They are public roads.
That might depend on the state if it is applicable at all. In Indiana,
for instance, many cities (and even more towns and no townships or
below) don't do trash pick-up. In those areas, it is up to the
individual. Our HOA decided to contract for trash pick-up because we got
a good deal and got tired of having one or two garbage cans out every
HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.