Help me price this job! (tile replacement in SUNROOM)

[Ignoramus6767]

A part of the floor in our sunroom rotted and the old tile chipped in many places.

The area is approximately 70-80 square feet, on two levels, ground and about 1.5 foot above ground.

70% of floor is above ground, supported by wood joists, 5% is on little stairs, and remaining 25% lays on ground level concrete. This floor surrounds a hot tub.

What I want is old tile and plywood torn out, replaced with new 3/4" plywood, and new tile installed properly.

I will pay for all materials. In fact, we already have tile.

MY QUESTION: What I would like to know is the ballpark for LABOR COSTS.

I am getting pissed off as we already wasted a lot of time on contractors who would not come on time, one guy reneged on his promise to start work, etc. One person asked for about $40 per square foot, not including materials, which I suspect is excessive. If worst comes to worst, I will have to do it myself, but I would much rather not.

Still, I want to do one more effort to find a sensible contractor and started calling everyone from yellow pages. I do need an idea of how much it might cost, hence my question.

i

[bambam]

No one can answer that question with any hope of being within 300 percent. Tilesetters here charge $ 6 - 9 per square foot to set tile, or between $250 and 450 per day. Assuming 12 x 12 tile, your job sounds like a day and a half to two days.

The plywood supplied and installed ... figure $80 to 100 per sheet.

The big question is the tear out. Could be half a day for a $10 an hour helper ... could be a lot more.

You may have to, it's a very small job.

One interesting thing that is happening here is that it's busy enought that qualified trades -- electricians, plumbers, tilesetters, drywallers and carpenters in particular -- are now avoiding work for homeowners. Just too much hassle.

They're favouring small contractors -- we pay better than builders, our jobs are ready when they're supposed to be ... we don't look for freebees or try to chisel them down ... and we pay on time.

Ken

[Edwin Pawlowski]

A lot of installers won't touch customer supplied material. Too often the homeowner is looking for a bargain, buys cheap material, wrong material, nickels and dimes the guy, etc. They would rather work on their own doing the entire job or as a subcontractor for a flooring store.

[Ignoramus6767]

I do not want to object to what you just said. The tile that we bought is fine, I am sure of that. If the contractor wants to buy the rest himself at sensible prices, that's OK with me. I just want the estimate to center around labor costs and not material costs.

i

[Ignoramus6767]

It is actually 13x13 tile.

Got it. I could do it myself if need be.

Sounds like it. I will have a couple of people come out soon (tonight and tomorrow), I will see what they say.

I understand. The job is also quite small.

It would be easy for me (from theoretical standpoint) to remove old stuff, treat or replace rotted joists, and set new plywood. I have all the tools and plenty of experience doing this kind of work. I built many things of this sort (2 sheds, balcony in my old country, boat deck etc).

What I hate, and have little experience with, is setting tile, cutting it, and making sure that everything lines up, while the glue is still wet. I am certain that I will f*ck it up. That's the real issue.

Plus, my 4 year old needs a lot of attention because I already wasted too much time on these sorts of things as opposed to sitting down with him and having him learn important kid stuff. I would hate to waste 20 evenings on this BS. I will do it if necessary, but without joy.

i

[nonews]

The greatest wisdom is in your final paragraph. We will regret for all our days not having spent time with the children.

It is actually 13x13 tile.

Got it. I could do it myself if need be.

Sounds like it. I will have a couple of people come out soon (tonight and tomorrow), I will see what they say.

I understand. The job is also quite small.

It would be easy for me (from theoretical standpoint) to remove old stuff, treat or replace rotted joists, and set new plywood. I have all the tools and plenty of experience doing this kind of work. I built many things of this sort (2 sheds, balcony in my old country, boat deck etc).

What I hate, and have little experience with, is setting tile, cutting it, and making sure that everything lines up, while the glue is still wet. I am certain that I will f*ck it up. That's the real issue.

Plus, my 4 year old needs a lot of attention because I already wasted too much time on these sorts of things as opposed to sitting down with him and having him learn important kid stuff. I would hate to waste 20 evenings on this BS. I will do it if necessary, but without joy.

i

[No]

Plywood is not best for substrate under tile. You also mention in response to another poster that the jooists may be rotted. A tile guy may not have the skills and experience to do the entire job.

Where are you located?

[calhoun]

Just a side note, to be installed correctly it is recommended the floor be min 1 1/4" thick. You should consider adding another 1/2' sheet on the 3/4.

[Sheldon Green]

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote

Bingo!

[Ignoramus6767]

Good point. If, and when, I undertake the project by myself, I will ask numerous questions and will follow sensible advice given. This is not the first job that I would do under wise guidance of alt.home.repair.

West of Chicago, IL.

i

[Ignoramus6767]

Makes sense. I was thinking about durock on top of plywood.

i

[SQLit]

Tile setting in Phoenix starts at $2.50 a square foot PLUS materials. It is easy to get to the $3-4 range for labor. Maybe you should consider doing the demo yourself. Then looking about for someone to do the install.

[Colbyt]

Having followed the thread and reading all your posts, you sound like a reasonable guy. I think I would agree with SQlit. If you do the demo, joist and plywood replacement you have a straight project for bidding. As long as you have 110-120% of a quality tile most guys should be willing to work with you because all they have to do is add underlayment, set tile and grout. Most contractors like simple bids. It is the o'sh*** that are uncovered that cost them money.

Pricing depends on where you are and how busy they are.

Colbyt

[JRanieri]

Hey, (you're an old MFW denizen, right?) Anyway - the big unknown from the contractor's POV is the demo / new substrate work. They are likely envisioning a worst case scenario and bidding accordingly. If you undertake the demo and put down a nice clean, flat, stable substrate - you will probably find the bidding for straight tilesetting/grouting to be much more appealing to the contractor.

Good luck.

[Ignoramus6767]

Thanks to Colbyt and SQLit. i have 130% of tile or so.

I really like this suggestion. Indeed, I can do the demolition, repair of joists and I can lay plywood. This is a straightforward project for me. I am mindful that there can be surprises about just how much has rotted, but I can deal with them, it is just a question of time.

Since it's the tiling that I do NOT want to do, I can indeed offer it (and laying Durock) as a straightforward job to the tiling guys.

Let me make sure I understand: first I screw on plywood, then, on top of it, goes durock, and then glue and tile. Is that right?

i

[Ignoramus6767]

yep... I recall a certain picture of yours after demolishing a concrete sidewalk...

That makes perfect sense. I will talk to them accordingly. If they even show up, that is. It is 6:57, and no sign of the guy who promised to show up at 6:30... the usual BS goes on...

i

[Colbyt]

The tile guys may prefer to install the wonderboard or durock because of the potential installation issues.

They may need to float a thin layer of thinset under the board to achieve a level surface they will warrant.

Then the tile is set using thinset and grouted.

I think your best option is to offer them a solid 3/4" plywood floor securely installed with joists 16" OC. If you really want a strong floor add bridging or blocking between the joists every 6-8 foot. Both are cheap and add a lot of strength.

Colbyt

[Ignoramus6767]

Okay, makes perfect sense....

The turd who promised to show up at 6:30 tonight had not shown up.

i

[Edwin Pawlowski]

You may, in fact, have the best tile in the world. But contractors, being burnt too many times, just won't take the time to find out. Right now, most tradesmen are busy and don't have to take on the small jobs or risk problem homeowners. They really don't need you. Really.

[Ignoramus6767]

In any case, we found a guy who will start working tomorrow, for $500 for the entire labor. All materials are on us, we'll buy them at HOME DEPOT. He was recommended to us also.

i