In an earlier thread I stated I needed to add some circuits in the basement
and several replied that by code they need to be GFI. Several of the major
appliance manufacturers, including GE, Amana etc do not recommend running
their appliances on a GFI, just a standard grounded outlet. I'm relocating
a washer and dryer. GFCI or not?
Washer and dryer, use a GFCI. (I assume it's a gas dryer)
Refrigerator or freezer, no GFCI (but you may need to use a single
receptacle instead of a duplex so you can claim it's a dedicated
The dedicated receptacle exception to the requirement for GFCIs in
unfinished basements has been eliminated in the current version of the
NEC (2008). Current leakage standards for appliances have also been
tightened, and new refrigerators or freezers should not trip a GFCI.
If a new appliance trips a normal GFCI, the appliance is defective.
As for using older appliances, that presents a problem. :-) I guess
if your old appliance has a leakage current of more than 5ma, then you
can't use it in an unfinished basement in an NEC-compliant fashion.
There is no exception to the GFCI requirement for outlets in "unfinished"
parts of a basement. If the manufacturer recommends the appliance not be
GFCI protected, I wouldn't put them in the basement. I have never seen such
documentation though. Have you actually seen this written somewhere other
than bloggers opinions ?
On Tuesday, June 1, 2010 9:46:53 PM UTC-4, Joe J wrote:
RE: The quotes from manufacturers linked above at applianceaid.com, the one
for Amana appears legit, as I searched the text and found it on the Amana
official website at http://www.amana.com/content.jsp?pageName=HT-RG-Usage
-5. As for the GE quote, I can't find it except in forums echo-chambers. Cl
osest I've gotten is a forum poster who suggests they heard it first-hand f
rom GE, but the trail runs cold there, so far.
I'm trying to find GE claiming GFCI's are bad for their appliances. It's ju
st about impossible to install a dryer in a location that doesn't require G
FCI protection. 6' from a sink edge. Bam! Basement or garage: Bam! Even if
none of those applies, all the conditions that apply for GFCI and make them
a good idea in a kitchen or bathroom or basement, apply at least as much i
n a laundry.
For me any thing with electrical motor is bad to connect to GFCI.
Motor start surge will trip it which is not nice. Ouir laundry pair
is located in the basement utility room next to wash tub. No GFCI.
On Wednesday, April 30, 2014 8:36:16 PM UTC-4, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
ne for Amana appears legit, as I searched the text and found it on the Aman
a official website at http://www.amana.com/content.jsp?pageName=HT-RG-Usa
ge-5. As for the GE quote, I can't find it except in forums echo-chambers.
Closest I've gotten is a forum poster who suggests they heard it first-hand
from GE, but the trail runs cold there, so far.
just about impossible to install a dryer in a location that doesn't require
GFCI protection. 6' from a sink edge. Bam! Basement or garage: Bam! Even i
f none of those applies, all the conditions that apply for GFCI and make th
em a good idea in a kitchen or bathroom or basement, apply at least as much
in a laundry.
Those alleged quotes have no link so you can check them. Wherever they
came from, they are obviously written by people with little technical
knowledge, as there is nothing there that really explains much of anything:
"Thank you for contacting Electrolux Home Products. We do not recommend the
use of GFI outlets as they can go bad and cause loss of power to an applia
I wouldn't use one on a fridge/freezer, because GFCIs can sometimes
falsely trip. It's rare, but sometimes they do for unknown reasons.
But I agree with Gfre, if you plug a fridge in and it trips the GFCI
all the time, something is wrong.
"Some appliance components could create enough resistance to trip the GFI o
utlet during normal use."
Total nonsense and whoever wrote that is an idiot. In fact, it sounds
like all of this was written by some summer intern in response to someone
asking a question.
"The spark igniter on a gas range will cause the GFCI to trip."
I'm not familiar with how a spark ignitor actually works, but it
sounds very odd to me that line current would be diverted to ground.
I would think they would use a transformer to generate the spark
high voltage, in which case there should be no line current flowing
to ground to trip the GFCI.
One thing that even this crappy advice doesn't say is that using a GFCI
will damage the appliance. If you have one on a freezer and it falsely
trips and no one notices it for days, then you would have a problem.
If I had to speculate, I'd wonder if one reason appliance manufacturers
don't want them on anything is that when a GFCI trips, even for a valid
reason, then dummies find out that their microwave, whatever, doesn't
work and call their help line. No GFCI, less calls.
It's also obvious that their recommendations are inconsistent with
using countertop appliances in homes built in the last 30+ years, as
those receptacles must be GFCI protected. The fact that people are
using microwaves, blenders, food processors, mixers, etc pretty much
shows that GFCIs do work with appliances.
The current at both ends of and inductor is the same. The major problem
that I have heard of is "leakage". The UL test is now 0.5mA or lower
The NEC used to have exceptions to GFCI requirements for refrigerators.
As Wayne and RBM said, the exceptions are now gone. The code making
panels don't think there is a problem. Maybe Joe should ask
manufacturers why their appliances wouldn't work.
Plug-in 15/20A refrigeration in commercial kitchens is required to be
Some states like Oregon have amendments to the NEC where you can use a
regular outlet for things like a refrigerator or freezer in a garage or
basement. I don't know if this includes a washer?
But anyway check with your local electrical inspector. Local areas can make
changes / amendments to the national code...
"Joe J" wrote in message
"Surges," etc. don't cause a GFCI to trip.
Yeah, it's that simple.
Some appliances are expected to have higher than usual "leakage" to ground.
Among those are: toasters, washing machines, & dish washers. Yet each and
all of these shouldn't trip a GFCI when there aren't any leaks.
Older fridges sometimes permitted water to contact the defrost heaters
BUT properly working appliance with a "ground pin" in the cord or that are
deliberately grounded shouldn't cause a GFCI to trip.
If you have an old freezer or ice box you keep in the garage or some other
place where you don't check it every day, you SHOULD put it one a GFCI but
you also should install some kind of alarm when the appliance fails to
The GFCI only compares the current going out with the current coming
back. If they are equal, the GFCI does not trip. When you have an
internal short in the motor (usually a motor compressor like a fridge)
the GFCI trips ... like it is supposed to.
I guarantee, if you have a fridge that is tripping a GFCI, and you put
a current probe on the ground wire from that fridge, it will show
leakage current there.
You might not see it on a clamp on ammeter since it only needs to be
5ma and most are not that sensitive. Use a scope and you will see it.
That is also one of the reasons why an old fridge starts using more
power and why the freon will smell burned if you crack it open.
We know there must not be much of a problem with motorized hand tools
since every legal job site has GFCI on all of the circuits
All commercial refrigeration that is cord and plug connected is on
GFCI now too.
Simply are you saying inductive load when power is applied is not
causing momentary spikes? That is the cause of trip. Yes, I have a dual
trace Tek storage scope good for catching pulses down to nano seconds.
Most of time it gets by but I don't want even occasional trips.
My kitchen sub panel is fed by GFCI breaker and the trip does happen
from now and then. Depending time of the day and what's running in the
kitchen at the moment.
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