I traced the cabling back into the fuse box. This receptacle box (the one I
want to change the broken plastic on) has two lines coming into/ going out
of it: a 14/3 (black/white/red, + gnd) going back to the fuse box, and a
14/2 (black/white, + gnd) going to a single under the counter type ~20W
fluorecent light with a little on/off button. So for a simple plug ( a 5W
clock radio), and a simple light it has some pretty specail wiring, and
probably a waste since it is an original fusebox short on spots (none left).
Anyways, ok, maybe it was a special place before the kitchen remodel.
The 14/3 cable going back to the fuse box has a white, a red, a black, and
the bare copper ground wire. The red is connected to the fuse on the right,
and the black is connected to the fuse on the left, of a double fuse holder.
You must remove both the fuses to re and re just one. I am just assuming
the white and gnd are wired into the fuse box as they normally would be, but
I haven't traced them. Don't start with 220!!
The first/only time I tried wiring the new plastic receptacle in I had the
wires wrong and vaporized the fuse. I believe it was the fuse on the left
(the black wire) , if it matters. Also, due to my current IE settings I do
not have access to my original post if any of that matters. I can.
So I broke the connector on the hot (brass) side of the new receptacle, as
it was broken (on the same side) of the original receptacle. The original
receptacle had the push in type of wire connector on the back of it (4
push-in locations in total in the 4 corners on the rear of the receptacle).
The new replacement receptacle doesn't have push-ins on the back. So where
does that wire go? It was black. there was only one wire pushed in to any
connector on the back and it was black (I'm very sure, of both, 1 and black,
I think) I don't know which black wire it was, but it doesn't matter,
Bare ground to bare ground to bottom ground screw of the receptacle. The
two are to the rear of the box, and another single wire to the receptacle
White wire to white wire on the silver coloured/unbroken side of the new
receptacle. So they become connected, as are the grounds.
Red wire from fuse box to where?
Black wire (from the fuse box) to where.
Black wire (to supply power to the single, 20W F. light) to where?
All I can assume is that the black and red hot wires from the fuse box are
on opposite sides of the broken tab. I do not know if it matter which
(black/red hot supply) wire goes where (top or bottom of broken tab), and I
do not know if it matters where the black (hot) wire to the light goes.
(with the black or red wires of the hot fuse box supply), or to the top or
bottom of the tab, or which combination, if any is important)
Why do you say that? Sure sounds like a 220 circuit. Black is one
phase and red is the other.
Do you have a meter to measure the voltage? Measure between black and
red at the fuse.
So on your outlet use black or red. Or assuming 220, if you break
the tab and use both you have a different phase on top and bottom.
First, if you have fully traced the circuit and know all the loads on
it, you can wire the circuit any way that does what you want and is
Now we can say with fair certainty how the original circuit was wired:
red and black wires from the fuse box to opposite hot sides of the
receptacle (with the connector tab broken), black wire to the light
connected to one side of the receptacle (either side, doesn't matter).
Unfortunately this is not a code compliant way to wire the circuit
now. Two problems:
If you have a multi-wire branch circuit (two opposite hot phases each
serving 120V loads with a common neutral), then the connectivitiy of
the neutral can not depend on the device being installed. This just
means you have to take the two neutrals and pigtail them to a short
piece of wire that is then connected to the receptacle.
If you have a multi-wire branch circuit, then when there are any
devices that are connected to both phases (like your split
receptacle), the circuit needs to be opened by a single overcurrent
For this second requirement, if the circuit is protected by circuit
breakers, this means that a handle tie is required so that both
circuit breakers open at once. I don't know how this requirement is
applied to fuses: my instinct would be that you can't use two separate
fuses, so you simply can't wire a split receptacle at all. Perhaps
someone more experienced than I am can comment.
As to what to do to comply with the second requirement, more
information about the receptacle is required. Where is it located?
Do you need the extra capacity that the split receptacle requires, or
will the total current draw at the receptacle be less than the 15 amps
the 14 gauge wire can provide?
whatb I have learned and where I could go with this: i guess whats going on
is the top plug is dependant on one fuse, and the bottom plug is dependant
on the other fuse. And the light would also be connected to just one of
those hot supplies, and its fuse. Wrt the code, the outright safety, and my
physical wiring, I will want to do what apparently looks correct (for sight
inspection purposes), and is safe, then easiest. The two whites, since
connected together, you say I need to attach a short third wire into a
marrett then to just one of the screws. Sort of like the ground is. Easy
enough . Or is it good to just attach each white one to each of the two
screws? i.e. Are you suggesting I do that with the black from the light and
either red or black from the fusebox. I cannot fully understand what you're
saying. Whatever I do I want to to be as safe as before first. Not crazy
safe. Not necc even code safe. safe. And wrt whats going on further, i
don't understand you yet; thats me.
I'm in Toronto, ON, CA. Seperate residential home. Before the F light,
this location may have been for fridge; or another main kitchen power
supply, but now its just is just a single 20W Flourescent light mounted
under the kitchen cabinets, nothing else to it. The plug top or bottom is
only permanently connected to a clock radio. Its above the countertop, so
30" + 8" from the floor. Maybe a mixer on occasion, or just to check
something is working. Its at the front exit doorway (without door). The F
light is directly above the plug (a foot offset to the right) and about a
foot higher than the plug, and there is 3 or 5 feet between the two, and the
only (double) std. kitchen sink, a litle lower farther to the smae right,
and none else for 30 feet. There is a dishwasher directly below the counter
centered about where the F light is, but on a different circuit. The fridge
is directly opposite. Everything is std, furhter. Any more needed?
To be honest, I may need an ok like "you're at least safe enough" for the
wiring I chooses, cuz you've lost me, and I may not need be so tickedy-boo
about pigtailing, etc. If I think wrapping two solid 14 ga wires around the
same receptacle screw is safe enough (because of proximity to sides of steel
box when installed, unless otherwise obviously visually code wrong, or
unsafe, I'm willing to do it.
What about: (wrt safety at least, if I put it all together like this):
black (from fusebox fuse A) and black (from F light) to the top screw
(broken hot tab)
red (from fusebox fuse B) to the bottom screw (broken hot tab)
white (either to fuse box or F light) to one steel screw (intact tab)
other (other either to fuse box or F light) white to other steel screw
I have seen fuse boxes that have multi-fuse pullouts. You insert two
fuses into the pullout part while it is removed from the fuse panel, and
then plug it into the panel. For large loads (stove, dryer) the pullout
uses cartridge fuses, but there are also pullout units that take two
standard screw-base fuses. There's an interlock cover over the fuses so
you can't actually unscrew either fuse until the whole pullout block is
removed from the fuse panel.
With this arrangement, you can't voluntarily deactivate half of the
circuit by unscrewing one fuse; you have to pull the pullout block which
always deactivates both sides of the circuit. That provides one of the
functions of the two-pole circuit breaker. However, if one fuse blows
due to an overload, the other side of the circuit remains live until you
manually disconnect it - unlike the circuit breaker which disconnects
both sides on trip.
It seems this is a fundamental limitation of using fuses on 2-pole or
3-pole circuits, instead of a multi-pole breaker or a contactor with
overcurrent devices wired in series.
Anyway, I have seen these, but I don't know if they meet code now. I
haven't lived any place with fuses for a while now.
Yes I always spend hours of my own time creating fictitious questions to get
answers to the things I care nothing about.
It is rare that I get instructions rivaling differential calculus on how to
make my posts better, or exclaiming that it is not intelligible.
I am never left totally confused and purged of questions.
It always becomes very obvious I am just out of my league.
btw What is a troll?
Actually I have more questions. And I may have spoke too soon.
Assuming this gets wired correctly eventually (this is a real type of
circuitry) can I install only one fuse without the other?
I may have stumbled on another light that may be coinnected to this somehow,
but I'm not sure how to check. I was out in the backyard and there is a
dual yellow floodlight mounted high on the back of the house with a motion
detector. Wayn ont eh other side of the house. I cannot get the light to
come on, and I don't know why. It has a motion sensor and a light sensor,
to know when to come on if there is motion by the pool, but only in the
dark. It may be a bulb, but it probly, by odds not be both. Could it be
that both would not work if one burnt out. Its just 2 bulbs side by side on
ball joint swivels. What do you think about it. Is there anyway to play
with the wires at the receptacle in the kitchen, either connect them, or not
conmnect them, to see what gives with the lights out back wrt this circuit?
I forgot to add something about the outback light. The motion sensor has a
blinking red light (to indicate when it has the sensitity enough to pick
something out, or the range; to help aim it / set it up). Its blinking when
I move around now, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't have a battery, or any
need for a seperate power for just that, on just it. So I dunno. What to
think about it, or its connection, if any to the receptacle.
Let's forget about the outdoor light until you get the socket put back
What you have is a classic Canadian kitchen split duplex, right down
to the two fuses in a common carrier...except for the light. Canadian
code doesn't permit anything daisy-chained onto a split kitchen duplex
except another split kitchen duplex, with restrictions. So I don't see
any option to make this compliant with current code if you want the
light to work. However, that's no excuse not to make it safe!
To keep this outlet as a split, you'll need to make "pigtails" on the
white, the black and the ground, which means you connect the wires OF
EACH COLOUR together with each other plus a short (like 2-inch) piece
of wire (of the correct colour), and use the short pieces to connect
the outlet. The short white goes to the outlet's silver screw, the
short black goes to one of the gold screws, the short bare wire goes
to the green screw. The incoming red goes to the other gold screw, no
Or, since you have only light loads on this outlet, you could wire it
as a non-split. Now you can't put the tab back and there's no way to
hook the two screws together after breaking the tab, because you're
not supposed to put more than one wire under each screw. So to use the
split outlet as a non-split, you'd could either (a) pigtail the red
wire onto TWO short red pieces, one for each gold screw, or (b) buy a
new outlet and wire the red to one of the outlet's gold screws, no
pigtail required. The incoming black would connect to the outgoing
black, no pigtail required. You still need pigtails on the white and
ground, as another poster mentions. You can probably use a smaller
marrette on the bare wires since they are a smaller gauge.
If your old box is small, you may need to choose the option that uses
the fewest pigtails, which I think is the one with the new non-split
(Do not connect wires of different colours together. Do not connect
wires of different colours to the same side of a non-split outlet.
Connect only a white wire to the silver screw, and only the ground
wire to the green screw. Use only 15-amp fuses.)
If you wire the outlet split, one socket and the light will depend on
one fuse, the other socket will depend on the other fuse. Code
requires that in such cases the fuses be in the common carrier, so
that if you kill one side of the outlet, you kill them both at once.
(In a breaker panel they'd be on linked breakers.)
If you wire it non-split, both sockets in the outlet will depend on
one fuse, and the light will depend on the other. In this case the
fuses don't *have* to be in a common carrier, but you'd have to find a
normal two-fuse carrier for your old fuse box. Why bother? With a
radio on one and a light on the
other, you'll never blow either.
So at the very least, you need to hit a hardware store and get some
wire nuts ("Marrettes") and a short length of 14-gauge cable for the
If the motion sensor has a LED that lights, it is getting power. If the
LED flashes in response to people moving in front of it, the motion
detector part of it is working. If the lights don't come on at night,
1) the bulbs are burned out, or
2) the bulbs have poor contact in the socket, or
3) the photocell that disables the lights during the day is broken, or
4) the triac or relay that switches power to the lamps is broken.
To eliminate (1), remove the lamps and try them in another socket. If
they work, look in the socket and clean if necessary (after turning off
power to that circuit!). To check (3), switch the motion sensor to
"test" mode so it will light the lamps during the day. If they come on,
it's the photocell circuitry that's dead. If test mode doesn't bring on
the lamps, you have problem (4).
I just replaced a motion detector a few weeks ago due to a dead
photocell. That one worked when it was dry, but not when it was rainy
and humid for a few days.
thank you. I wonder if that unit is replacable for my unit - it looks
pretty basic (don't know what these are worth). It actually worked fine the
next night, but at the time I noticed a potential problem, I was really
working to try and activate it. And I am constantly aggravated by not being
able to turn and keep the thing on at night, without having to walk around
after a few minutes. I read the manual, but by the time I get around to
needing it, I can't rmember what to do to get it to stay on.
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