Does anyone have any experience (or an opinion) with Behr's Premium
Plus "Ultra" exterior paint? The Utra line was recently introduced;
priced between $31 (flat) and $33 (satin). The marketing hype is --
"paint and primer in one", use of nano-technology for better adhesion,
etc. Does anyone have any experience with this new paint? My
application is my old house in Vermont. Since I will be spending the
majority of my time preparing the house for painting, I want to use a
good quality, lasting paint.
Consumer reports tests paint every few years. I'm always surprised
that the very expensive brands offer little if any advantage over the
generic brands from places like Walmart, Sears, etc. They all perform
about the same but difference in cost is large. The last time I looked
a few years ago I think Walmart had the best rating- I think their
paint is made by Glidden.
A couple of years ago I was told by WalWart employee and iirc the can
backed him up that the paint I bought from Walmart was made by Sherwin-
Williams...not that I don't believe they could well be using different
vendors or have switched...
That's one thing I have against the generics/rebranded -- often you
don't know and don't know that what was rated is what is actually
But that doesn't tell you anything. Lets say you are the dpb bakery and
make good pies. You use quality ingredients and lets say it costs you $3
to make a pie.
I am Walmart and I place an order for "Sams Best" pies. I offer you
$2.33/pie. Its a big order and not an unusual request for a
manufacturer. You choose to accept the order and since you have an
efficient process the only way to meet the price point is to use cheaper
ingredients. So maybe now your pies have 15% less fruit and more
cornstarch and water.
So when someone looks at a pie and says "look these are made by the dpb
bakery" does it mean anything?
The point had to do w/ the recommendation of generic-branded products
(from CR paint tests in this case). Unless the product manufacturer
is given in the test and on the product itself, there's absolutely no
way to tell whether the product tested was the one bought -- the
distributor could have changed suppliers...
It wasn't claimed the fact that S-W or Glidden happens to be the
manufacturer has any bearing (necessarily) on the paint sold by a
large retailer under their house or other generic brand label on what
the same manufacturer might be selling under their own label.
Don't read more into a post than is written...
Not true!! Advertising and other elements are a part of the cost of
production. If dpb bakery is producing and selling pies under their own
label, the $3.00 per pie cost includes the costs of advertising, customer
service, distribution, etc. for that product. When they produce a pie for
Walmart they don't have to include those cost elements, so their total costs
to produce the identical pie are less when it's a generic than when it's
their branded item.
That doesn't guarantee that what they produce is the identical product,
because the retailer will specify what the product should be, and it may not
have the same specifications as the producer's branded item.
The point is, when a producer makes a generic product, its costs of
production will always be lower than an identical branded item because some
of the production costs are eliminated along with the brand name.
That's why items with a rigid specification (e.g., aspirin) can be produced
for lower cost as generics than when they carry a brand. -- even though the
products are identical, come from the same manufacturer and probably even
from the same production line.
You get from $3.00 to $2.33 by cost reduction, and the first costs you can
delete are those connected with the $3.00 item that don't apply to the $2.33
item -- marketing, distribution, etc., You may not have the option of using
cheaper ingredients, because Wal-Mart is going to give you detailed
specifications for the product they want. So "Sam's Best" pies will be
produced at lower cost than dpb's pies, even if they're identical in
specifications -- even if you can't tell one from the other until you see
which box they're put in.
My point is, the actual cost includes everything necessary to get the
product to market. Two identical pies on an assembly line will have
different costs bases depending upon which box they go into. This may seem
esoteric but it's not -- but it's hard to come to grips with the fact that
two physically identical pies can be on a shelf, but the break-even point
for one is $2.33 and for the other is $3.00. There's more to production
costs than the cost of ingredients, utility charges, production manpower,
etc. It's not an additional cost layer, it's an inherent part of the
manufacturing process. That's why the cost of producing a generic item is
less than the cost of an identical brand-name item -- frequently
significantly so. A real world example, there are "Roper" brand
refrigerators that are identical to lower-end Whirlpool brand refrigerators,
but are less expensive to produce because they don't carry the additional
costs of the Whirlpool name, (and also need to be sold at a lower price to
be competitive in the marketplace).
Actually, in the real world, it is most likely that both dpb's pies and
"Sam's Best" pies are produced by another company to the specifications
given to them by the contracted company. Example -- (1) any of the
multitude of pet foods involved in the recent recalls, which had a variety
of brand names but were all produced in the same factory. (2) Chevys and
Toyotas coming off the same NUMMI production line in California.
This isn't new -- I can remember as a kid, seeing the Kaiser-Frazer vehicle
production line, and you didn't know whether the car you were watching was a
Kaiser or a Frazer until they put the name plate on as the final pruduction
step. The costs were identical up to that point, but after deciding which
nameplate went on the vehicle the production costs for each became
Not hard to comprehend at all and nothing to come to grips with. I do
completely understand costs associated with manufacturing. We are
talking about the same thing but looking at it a different way.
In manufacturing you know the cost of doing everything. As you described
when branding is involved there is additional overhead which needs to be
There's more to production
Actually no, if you are a manufacturer you know the cost of every aspect
of your process. If you are making non branded product under contract
you use a lower overhead number than you would if were running branded
product. My example was simply based on the lower number.
That's why the cost of producing a generic item is
Typically outfits like Walmart beat you up on price and are not so
concerned about specifying how you do it. Say you make a canned food
product. They simply demand that you make it for a certain price (and
less each time they place the order). Its up to you to figure out how to
In the case of the pet foods some of the other reputable manufacturers
(Heinz as an example) went out of that business because they didn't want
to lower their quality any further to meet the big box store price point.
Exactly, you add in whatever additional cost is associated with the
brand. One brand may offer a significantly better warranty or do
I don't know, but the pies and baked goods from Sams Club and Costco
that I've had have been better than the pies from any of the local
supermarkets and many of the local bakeries too. Which is not to say
you don't have a point, which is that the product produced for Costco
may not be the same as that produced for other markets. But in many
cases, I think they are the same. For example, when I was looking
for a TV 5 years ago, Costco had Toshiba models that had the exact
same specs and looked identical to the ones sold in other stores. The
model numbers were the same except for two letters and that specific
model couldn;'t be found anywhere else. Also, those 2 letters were
different on all the Costco Toshibas. Most likely the TV was
identical, but they put a slightly different designator on it to
protect their other channels so you can't tell for sure it's identical.
Yeah, I think they've pretty well taken care of that on their own...
That said, I did use Behr on the barn project for reasons too long to
go into...it's going on four years and no complaints. Oil-based
primer, high gloss white top coat. Looks good and only problems are
those spots that didn't get quite the preparation needed. But, on a
building 40x66x40-ft ridge height of 90-yr old that hadn't been
repainted since sometime I'm guessing in the mid-50s it's inevitable
that a few spots are going to get missed. This spring finishing up
those spots is one of the jobs hopefully we'll get around to...
Actually they publish test results after 1 year of testing and label it
preliminary. The Glidden Endurance, California brand and a few others are
already proven though so why gamble. They consider 1 year torture test = 3
year of equivalent use.
I wouldn't use Behr paint if theygave it to me for free. The "Premium" Behr
paint they were selling 10 years ago lasted less than a year on my house and
garage. It was applied (properly, over their primer) in September, and it
was peeling the next Spring. it had a "lifetime" guarantee, so I brought in
pictures, they sent someone to the house, huge pain in the ass, but they
gave me back the $300 the paint cost. So what? It took me all summer to
scrape the crap off the house and prep it to be painted again. Last year, I
used California oil base primer and the California flat, which was the
Consumer Reports best recommendation in 2006. It's great, looks new, and I
think it really will last the 10+ years CR said it should. We'll see.
The "best" Behr of 10 years ago was runny, provided poor coverage, and
didn't last 6 months. However, they have obviously made changes in 10 years,
so who knows, YMMV? DEFINITELY use an oil base primer under the latex paint,
not a latex primer that Home Depot will recommend. It makes a HUGE
HD will not (at least necessarily) recommend latex primer -- from
As for Behr, they've been around since shortly after WW II and had an
excellent reputation in their market area (mostly west coast) prior to
the distribution deal w/ HD which made them much more widely known.
I have looked at the techncial details of their paints as compared to
others and they fit right along with any of them.
As noted in a previous response, I used something over 80 gal of it on
the barn and can register no complaint against the paint/primer. It
sprayed and covered very well and is, imestimation, on a par with
anything else of similar price point.
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