Installing three motion detector outside lights at daughter's house. Power
to come from panel in basemen. Wiring on outside of building will be surf
ace, either pvc or emt conduit. No aesthetic issues due to location.
Question: How do I change from romex inside the garage to conduit outside
the building. Rumor has it that I am not allowed to run romex in conduit (o
verheating??). If I do the change-over in an electrical box, it has to be
accessible. Not doable in the to-be finished basement with tenant. I supp
ose an outside weather resistant box will be required.
Also, is there any need for a switch? Three lights, three outdoor switches
? Circuit would be from a dedicated breaker.
Lights are so the tenant can walk down a long narrow sideyard, turn the cor
ner and go down the stairs to his unit.
All help appreciated.
On Tuesday, March 1, 2016 at 10:20:27 AM UTC-5, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
er to come from panel in basemen. Wiring on outside of building will be su
rface, either pvc or emt conduit. No aesthetic issues due to location.
e the building. Rumor has it that I am not allowed to run romex in conduit
(overheating??). If I do the change-over in an electrical box, it has to b
e accessible. Not doable in the to-be finished basement with tenant. I su
ppose an outside weather resistant box will be required.
I'm confused. If the Romex is in the garage, why are you mentioning accessi
junction boxes in a finished basement?
There are many different styles of weather proof PVC junction boxes
available so that you can transition from Romex in the garage to THHN for
running through Schedule 40 PVC. Just make sure that you properly protect
the wire as it passes through the wall.
You could also use a junction box inside the garage and then run your
conduit through the wall and use these to make neat turns and connections
to the external conduit. They come in both PVC and metal.
es? Circuit would be from a dedicated breaker.
orner and go down the stairs to his unit.
I can't speak to the "need" for switch but there may be a *desire* for a
switch. Most motion detectors can be switched on by flipping the
switch on-off-on in whatever pattern/timing the manufacturer chose. This
can be useful for times when you want the lights on for an extended period
of time. In this case, a couple of 3 way switches (one at each end of the
long narrow side yard) would certainly be convenient.
On Tue, 1 Mar 2016 07:49:31 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
Panel in garage.
Romex from panel in garage through basement to location directly below
motion light. Conduit up the outside of wall to lamp.
I'd likely put a switch next to the panel (or use switch rated
breaker in panel - dedicated to the lights) and then tun the romex out
through a foundation bushing to a weatherproof J-Box at the bottom of
the conduit. Then THHN or romex up the "protection" conduit.
Option is to run conduit from last accessible J-Box location in
basement all the way to the lights with thhn pulled - no hidden
junctio required. More work, but possibly better solution.
On Tuesday, March 1, 2016 at 12:28:47 PM UTC-5, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Romex is not approved for wet locations and I think most would consider
an outside, exposed conduit a wet location. Of course, you'll never
learn the error of your ways because you have me blocked, along with
others here because they point out when you're wrong. Especially on
Simple solution is to run Romex inside, put a junction box outside
where it exits, use thwn the rest of the way. You probably need
a box there anyway, to be able to reasonably pull the wires. Also,
THHN is not rated for wet locations, but most THHN is dual rated
THWN anyways. But since you like to mention that you think I'm
a jerk and that you've blocked me, thought I'd point that out too.
On Sun, 06 Mar 2016 18:12:24 -0500, email@example.com wrote:
No it isn't. Anything outside exposed to the weather is a wet
NEC article 100
Location, Wet. Installations underground or in concrete slabs or
masonry in direct contact with the earth; in locations subject to
saturation with water or other liquids, such as vehicle washing areas;
and in UNPROTECTED LOCATIONS EXPOSED TO WEATHER.
Being in conduit does not change that
The NEC handbook commentary says this
"The inside of a raceway in a wet location and a raceway installed
underground are considered wet locations. Therefore, any conductors
contained therein would be required to be suitable for wet locations."
On Sun, 06 Mar 2016 22:59:11 -0500, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
All I know is around here a sealed conduit system is not considered an
"unprotected location exposed to weather". and nor is a weatherproof
outdoor receptacle on the outside wall of a house. Now, thei
"conduit" can NOT be EMT in this instance, because EMT is not a
"sealed conduit system" like a glued sceptre system or a threaded
Ridgid conduit or a electra-flex or liqui-tite flexible conduit.
On Mon, 07 Mar 2016 07:47:28 -0500, email@example.com wrote:
These systems are far from "sealed" and most will collect water over
time. That is particularly true if it is underground.
The conduit joints might be water tight but the condulets and box
covers are far from it. They breathe, moisture infiltrates and
On Mon, 07 Mar 2016 12:39:15 -0500, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
OK - the OP was definitely not talking about underground. He's
talking running conduit up a wall to a light., and the cover on a
weatherproof box is water tight. The "Liquid-tite" conduit running to
my wall mounted security light IS waterproof - it is certifiable for
underwater lighting use, and the cover it comes out of, on the J-Box
it connects to, is also "weather-tite". No danger of water getting
into the "conduit system" in any way. A sceptre plastic system can be
every bit as tight. Mine passed inspection with no problems.
On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 3:32:51 PM UTC-5, email@example.com wrote:
And of course there is danger of water getting into the conduit,
it's called condensation. It's not airtight, humid air gets, in
it cools, now you have some moisture. And I've yet to see a perfect
oudoor box either. They rely on gaskets that aren't perfect,
some water can get in around screws, etc. It's also really stupid
here, because the OP can just run type UF, which is permitted inside
and out and no inspector will fail it. I think it's probably easier to transition to THWN where it goes outside, but that's just me.
But feel free to keep me on your ignore list and keep pissing in the wind.
On Mon, 07 Mar 2016 15:32:13 -0500, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Underwater lights are sealed units (NEMA 6P) including the SJOW cord
which goes all the way to the box above the deck.
The niches they install in are flooded so the "liquid tite" going to
it is wet on one end, all the way back to the water level. That is why
the pool light J box is always elevated a foot or two above the
ground. That raceway is full of water and the reason why it needs to
be "liquid tite" is so the pool won't drain.
Yeah sure, that bubble cover is really going to even keep the rain
out, not to mention humid air.
They are wet locations and that is why the NEC now requires weather
resistant receptacles. Those boxes can end up holding water up to the
level of that silly foam ring that barely seals the day it was
installed and a year later it usually crumbles to dust if you touch
No doubt it passes inspection but it is not certified "waterproof"
only "rain tight" (NEMA3r). Do you really think it is "air tight" and
that is what you need to prevent condensation.
This is what NEMA says about 3r
"NEMA 3R enclosures are typically used in outdoor applications for
wiring and junction boxes. This style of
enclosure provides protection against falling rain, sleet, snow, and
external ice formation. Indoors they protect
against dripping water. This style of enclosure does not have a
gasketed sealing surface. Some models have
hasps for padlocking"
That little foam ring is not a "gasket"
On Mon, 07 Mar 2016 18:03:26 -0500, email@example.com wrote:
The point is, it's romex in weathertight conduit in an exterior
application and it passed inspection in Canada, where the rules are
generally a lot more rigig when it comes to safety standards (nanny
One: Just because it passed inspection does not mean it meets code in that jurisdiction.
The inspector may not have seen it -- or may have been as ignorant of the code as you are.
Two: What you *think* is code-compliant in Canada isn't necessarily code-compliant, either
there or anywhere else.
Three: It's time you learned that.
Four: This is NOT compliant with the U.S. NEC, irrespective of your misguided opinions.
Five: Are you aware that you've been arguing with a master electrician (gfretwell, not me)
about what does and doesn't meet Code?
On Tue, 8 Mar 2016 12:04:31 -0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
Answer to one - it passed - that's all that matters to me
Answer to two - I know code in Canada and elsewhere is different - and
I've qualified that several times. I said "in Canada"
Answer to three - I already know that - see one and two above.
Answer to four - I never said it was compliant to US NEC - I said it
passes here - and I'm sure it has been passed many times in many
places in the USA as well - not every jurisdiction sticks strictly to
Answer to number four - all kinds of guys argue with me about
automotive stuff - and I've been a "master mechanic" for over half my
life - (and I'm not 30). I've been wrong a few times, and I'm sure he
has been too.
Not saying he's wrong now either.
"Passed inspection" is not the same as "Code-compliant".
Nice try. What you *actually* said is
No qualifiers there at all.
Clearly you haven't learned it yet, as amply demonstrated by what you *actually* said (in
contrast to what you now *claim* you said). This is not the first time you've made blanket
statements about what's Code-compliant and what's not, without mentioning the fact that
you're talking about Canadian code (or your interpretation thereof, anyway).
Again, for the record, what you *actually* said is
Again, "passed inspection" is not the same as "code compliant".
Indeed you have.
Not here, not on electrical issues -- not that I've ever noticed, anyway. I've learned a lot from
reading his posts.
On Tue, 8 Mar 2016 23:52:59 -0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
OK - it is a DAMP location - not wet in Canadian code, and NMD90 cable
is approved for installation in "damp locations" in Canada.
No I am not. But as just stated above, nmd90 in Canada is approved for
use in dry and "damp"ocations, but not wet. A properly installed
protective conduit protects the cable from "wet" although it may allow
the cable to be "damp" - and that passes code in Canada.
This iosn't a code document - but from Southwire's canadian website -
Southwires Romex® SIMpull ® Type NMD90 cables may be used for both
in dry locations or concealed work in dry or damp locations
The maximum allowable conductor temperature is 90°C
The minimum recommended installation temperature is minus 25°C for
cables, and minus 10°C for three-conductor cables (with suitable
Material should be properly stored above 0°C for 24 hours prior to
The maximum voltage rating for all intended applications is 300
Consult the Canadian Electrical Code1 for further information
related to applications
Southwires Romex® SIMpull ® Type NMD90 cables meet or exceed the
all applicable ASTM specifications, CSA C22.2 No. 48 (non-metallic
sheathed cable), and
the Canadian Electrical Code.1
Look up table 19 of the canadian electrical code for the permission to
run NMD90 exposed in damp locations.
See also: https://www.ecswire.com/products/specs/nmd90
Download http://members.rennlist.org/warren/elec-hbk.pdf and search
for table 19.
Does this satisfy your objections??????
Like you said - code is different in different places. I am in Canada.
In Canada NMD90 cable is approved for damp locations.
Vertical protection conduit connected to weatherproof box for mounting
a light is a damp location.
I have now given you the cites - so can we drop it now????
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