I have recently purchased a new swimming pool heater, installed it next
to the shed in the backyard so naturally had to get electricity to it
from the main panel in the house.
I have a stab-lok panel in the house so I got a 50 amp NC0250cp bracer
that I installed in the house panel then connected the black wire and
the Red wire to each pole of the breaker the white wire to the neutral
of the panes and the Ground to the Ground I am using outdoor 6AWG wire.
I got the wire outside underground and to the shed where I installed a
new panel wired it up by connecting each Black and Reb to each main
connector of the new panel the white to the neutral bar and the ground
to the Ground bar I put in a 15amp single pole breaker for the pool
pump and a 30amp breaker for the pool heater.
with my voltmeter I cam measure 120vac when I go across neutral and
each Black and Red but when I measure across Black and Red I don't get
240vac I find that strange.
when 50amp breaker is on in the house and the 15amp breaker is on in
the shed the pomp works well but I would like to see if the 240 VAC is
ok before I connect up the pool heater.
Can you please help
do you have 220 service in the house?
if you don't have 220 measurable at the main panel you won't get it in
the shed either.
for 220 you need two 110v hots out of phase, not just any 2 hots from a
110v main panel.
please read faq at:
That's my guess. Based on the "N" in the breaker number he gives, I'm
guessing it's a "narrow" style not designed for the particular panel he
has and isn't picking up but one side of the main buss bars...
See comments elsewhere on the symptoms...
Did you do a load check to verify you have sufficient excess capacity
in this panel to power another 50A subpanel? That's a significant load
and a Stablok panel implies an older service since FPE went under (over
those panels/breakers, basically, btw) quite some time ago you may be
pushing the limits of your current service (no pun intended) by adding
this large of a load from this existing panel.
I'm thinking this project could be worth getting an experienced
electrician to come evaluate the situation and advise you on whether
this is the proper way to get the power to the pool for the above
As noted, with the limited information, I've provided a guess as to
what could be the possible cause of the symptoms you describe elsewhere
in the thread but think there's a larger issue here that's worth
Replace the Stab-Loc "incendiary device" a.k.a. panel before you burn
down your house. Then hook up the new heater to a proper two pole
breaker in a proper panel. My preference is for Square D QO panels, but
most anything current would be better that the Stab-Loc waiting to burn
the place down.
Wiring is not a hobby, call a licensed electrical contractor. Sounds
like you have a real "cluster fu@k" going on, especially with the
Stab-lok panel. You are over you head and can easliy burn down your
house or kill yourself and others. The WORSE thing here is (and nobody
picked up on) is this is a swimming pool heater, and you did not
mention electrical bonding of pool related equipment. Trust me I
investigate this stuff for a living.
Pete C. wrote:
Unless her Stab Locc panel is 200 amps she should just replace the
FPE panels have breakers that dont trip, or never trip again after one
adding a 50 amp pool heater? you probably dont have the capacity and
should upgrade you service for you own safety
That's what the CH retrofit cabinet does (except for the outer
box)...the cost savings is some on the material but mostly based on the
shorter replacement time/less labor associated with changing out the
components vis a vis ripping the whole box out and replacing it. This,
of course, assumes that one is having it done professionally which is
almost a universal recommendation for anyone who's asking for advice on
More precisely, FPE Stab-lok panels/breakers have had instances of such
failures at a high enough rate to make replacement a viable
The _really_ bad thing in the story from my perspective is that
apparently FPE actually went so far as to have falsified test data and
filings to UL, etc., to get listings approved.
I haven't replaced all the FPE stuff here yet, but will
eventually....which is how I discovered the CH retrofits.
I havew a stab loc FBE panel; and saw a no trip once. I turned off
whatr I THOUGHT was the breaker for the line I was working on..
As my usual safety practice I then shrted this line to make certain it
It wasnt and proceeded to burn and vaporize a wire. took out a switch
too. found that later.
I replaced the breaker and then heard about the FPE problem
plan new 200 amp service this summer
my point about a new service for the OP
If shew has a 100 amp service and is adding a new 50 amp pool heater
her service is undersized and is best replaced completely. just
changing the guts of the panel isnt a good idea, a new panel will give
her more slots etc.
Even if you could replace a 100 amp guts to a 200 amp the panel wouldnt
have as many slots, a larger neutral bar and may well lack some ground
rods or water meter jumper...
a full upgrade is likely better
If you look at the datasheet for the retrofit kits, you'll see they
include all of the above. The only thing you don't get new and up to
date is the outer box itself.
Therefore, the only limitation is the physical size of the box as to
whether it will fit or not and they make kits for essentially any box.
If it isn't large enough, obviously it has to be replaced. However, OP
indicated there is/was sufficient room in the existing panel for
another circuit which implies it's at least a possible option.
Have done several using these such as the church parsonage at
considerably less expense than the full tearout/replacement.
Well older boxes were smaller when compared to today, and she appeared
to be using thin breakers too...
In my case my 100 amp box is JAMMED, for cost isues I have thought
about buying a 200 amp main box, with a extra 100 amp main breaker.
then replace the box but not the service line or meter can, and leave
it 100 amps. then when theres more $ go ahead and replace the remaining
components and install the 200 amp main breaker.
new service panels arent that expensive.
I do wonder with the OPs FPE if the grounding and bonding is current to
todays standards espically critical with that pool...........
please address my point...
assuming she has a 100 amp panel, is upgrading a FPE 100 amp a good
idea when adding a new major load of a electrical pool heater?
Theres no use replacing the guts just to find the main breaker trips...
plus the issue of good grounding and bonding with a swimming pool
As I've pointed out repeatedly, assuming the physical size is adequate
(and OP has already indicated there was room available in the existing
panel) one can select a larger main w/ a larger ampacity main as part
of the retrofit kit. In essence, one no longer has an FPE panel at
Whether it would be a fit in the particular application is
indeterminate from here, this asinine subthread started when I simply
pointed out there is a neat way to replace the trouble-prone FPE panels
besides a complete tearout which is potentially cheaper.
If the old box is surface mounted in an unfinished basement, there's no
purpose in a retrofit kit. Assuming it is embedded in a finished area
and does have physical capacity (and a lot of the FPE panels are plenty
large enough, dimensionally and that assumption is as equally
verifiable to be true in this case as that it isn't) the labor savings
in the associated replacement and repair of ancillary finished area can
save a sizable fraction of a replacement labor cost.
Good point, around here most panels are surface mount, in garages and
By the time you replace the service drop, meter can and the guts just
chanhing the panel is no doubt easier. plus around here many panels are
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