Dishwasher connection

[Default User]

I have a slight problem with the water hookup for my dishwasher. I'll go over the whole thing. As I say in the programming newsgroups, describe the entire problem, not just the proposed solution.

The supply pipe comes out of the side of the cabinet and takes a 90 degree bend, so that it's pointing forward (towards the door of the dishwasher). This pipe is fairly long, and has the standard 3/8 OD compression connection. When I installed the new dishwasher last year, I replaced the existing plastic line with steel-mesh "burst-proof".

Due the length of the supply pipe and the radius bend of the steel line, it seems that it made contact with the frame of the dishwasher when all the way in. Over the course of the year, the normal vibrations abraded the line to point of wearing a hole in it. Not good, luckily I was there when the leak started.

I think this can be solved by coming off the supply pipe at 90 degrees, so that the dishwasher line connects perpendicular to the pipe instead of coming straight off it and bending back around.

That brings me to part two of the problem. The water shutoff valve for the dishwasher isn't closing all the way, it slows it to trickle. Ideally that should be fixed, but I've never done it and that doesn't seem like a good one to start with. It's in the undersink cabinet behind the disposal and among the drain pipes. Limited room to work is an understatement. A plumber could be hired, of course.

A possible solution to both would be an angle stop valve that connected to the supply pipe. The problem there is that I haven't found one. Most of the angle stops are designed to connect to iron pipes and such. The only stop valve I could find designed to connect directly to a 3/8 compression connection was a straight one. There are ones that accept compression connections, but none I could find that had a compression connector "captive nut".

If I scrap the valve idea, I was unable to find anything like an elbow for this application. They do make tee connectors, "add-a-line" type, that hook directly to the supply line. I could cap the straight-out branch and use the angled one.

Any thoughts on what I've described, other avenues to consider, or details on things I've overlooked or plain don't know about would be appreciated. If you suggest some other fittings, a web link or enough detail for me to be able to google it would be helpful.

Brian

[No]

Hey Brian - I'm not sure I can completely visualize what exactly is your situation. Anyway, if I can restate the problem, as I understand it, and the propose the best solution for the problem I have stated. Here goes.

You have a flexible supply line for you dishwasher that failed due to the routing requirements imposed by the type and position of the supplies shutoff valve, additionally, your shut-off valve does not completely shut off the water.

The second part of the problem first - For a drippy valve you usually do not need to replace the valve. A new washer is all that would be required to fix that. You still may want to replace the valve. Read on.

If you had a failure of your supply line caused by an awkward valve location it could be appropriate to replace or move that valve. It may not be as bad as you imagine. Some valves are threaded on to the copper pipe by means of a sweat(solder) to pipe type connector. If that's your case, and a different style valve would work better just unscrew the old and put in a new one. I suspect you are not so lucky. Your old valve may be soldered to the supply line. If you have no experience soldering pipes it can be a challenge in a tight space. If the pipe goes through the floor, into the basement, you may actually do better breaking the connection in the basement. Making up your new valve onto your pipe and then making your final connection in the basement where you have more room. Going this route may give you even more flexibility as to where to place your shut-off valve for convenience of connecting your dishwasher.

Back to soldering - If you have never done it before, its not too hard. There are a few key things. 1st - Dry. The inside of the pipes must be free of any water. 2nd - clean. You must clean the pipe sections so they are super shinny, even brand new pieces. 3rd - flux. Flux must be used. 4th - flame location. The solder will follow the flux toward the heat. heat the back, apply solder to the front. The joint gets filled. You can solder upside down once you see how this works. Home Depot near me will give you a lesson, they will at least cover #3 and 4, #2 if they are decent. They may forget #1 since they may assume you are working on all new pieces. Buy a piece of pipe and a bag of fittings and practice. Make some modern art for you wife.

Good luck, let us know if you have any further questions or want some clarifications to what I have suggested. Also - Post back as to what you ended up doing and how it turned out.

[Default User]

"No" wrote in news:43b459e9 [e-mail]:

Ok, I wasn't completely clear. The routing problem was due to the supply pipe itself, not the shutoff valve. The valve is under the sink (the cabinet adjacent to the dishwasher space). The pipe then comes through that cabinet wall. It's the length of that supply pipe, its position, the larger bend radius of a steel supply line, and the frame of that particular dishwasher.

The problem with that is that it's a tight squeeze to even get in to access the valve. As I haven't repaired a leaky faucet, I doubt this is a good one to start with, if you see what I mean.

No, it's not the valve's fault for that. I was trying to come up with a way to fix both problems in a way that didn't involve me trying to work in extreme cramped quarters. The shutoff valve is behind the disposal, next to the sink drain pipe. I'm also not a tiny guy.

I'm a plumbing novice, I'm ok with hooking up these compression fittings, but have no experience elsewhere. The perils of too much condo living before this.

If someone has suggestions on how to come up with something like an angle stop valve that would hook up to a 3/8 compression fitting, then I'd try that. Otherwise, the tee connnector will probably be my solution.

Brian

[Colbyt]

Read both your post above and the follow-up.

You might be able to find what you need at Lowes or HD. A real plumbing store will have what you need.

I could not visualize the exact layout but I think what you want to do is elbow off the dishwasher connection point. An angle stop may not be what you want. Compression fittings are sold in all the standard configurations, straight, 90 degree elbows. You could even buy two of those dishwasher hoses and connect them together using a coupler which would double the length and allow you to route your hose anywhere you like.

I don't recommend trying to replace the cutoff or even repair the washer. If it was a quarter-turn ball valve it would not be failing. Since it is, it is most likely a cheap POS that may well break if you mess with it. Turn the water off at the main entrance, usually located near the water heater.

As more if you like and let us know how it turns out.

Colbyt

[Default User]

"Colbyt" wrote in news:JC_sf.665910$_o.352880@attbi_s71:

I'm not sure if you dropped a "not" out of the first sentence above. I've been over what's available at the Lowes/HD.

That's basically correct.

I wasn't successful in finding an elbow that with a captive compression nut, just the tee connector I mentioned before. That will, I'm sure, do the job. However my desire was to add a valve there so that I didn't have to worry about the other shutoff valve.

It's not the length of the dishwasher line that's the problem. It's how close the end of the main supply is to the frame of the dishwasher. Because that pipe points directly towards the "guts" of the machine, the line adds several inches as it curves. It ends up making contact with the frame somewhere. By coming off at an 90, there's not as much need for clearance.

At the end of the message, I've place some ASCII art that may help explain. Non-proportional font required.

I tend to agree, I'd like to have one of those better valves. The easy point to install for me is right at the end of the supply pipe, which takes a 3/8 OD compression connector.

Brian

Diagram follows!!

| = walls

• = supply pipe

X = shutoff valve

• = DW supply line

O = DW input connector

^ = contact with DW frame ^ T = tee connector with one end capped.

EXISTING:

| | | | ****X******* | | * | | | * | | | * | | | ++++++ * | | | + + + | | | + ++++ | | | O ^ | | | ^ | | | | | --------------- Dishwasher Sink cabinet

DESIRED:

| | | | ****X******* | | * | | | * | | | * | | | ++++++ * | | | + +++X | | | + | | | O ^ | | | ^ | | | | | --------------- Dishwasher Sink cabinet

POSSIBLE:

| | | | ****X******* | | * | | | * | | | * | | | ++++++ * | | | + +++T | | | + | | | O ^ | | | ^ | | | | | --------------- Dishwasher Sink cabinet

[Oscar_Lives]

Get rid of the flex tube and the compression fittings. Just solder the proper pipe and fittings from a new shut-off valve.

Install it correctly and to code. Don't jack-leg it.

[Default User]

I don't think I've explained it correctly to you. The "flex tube" is the standard braided steel dishwasher line. You have to have this so the unit can move in and out of its space. You can't access the connection otherwise. There's no code question here.

Brian

[Colbyt]

I have a real hard time following ASCII art.

If I am not mistaken the connection point at the DW is 1/2" ips. All the hoses that I have seen come with an elbow as in this example:

If yours does not have one, just use short 1/2" nipples and an elbow. I know this can be bought in brass where the compression fittings are sold but you can also use galvanized if necessary. You can also use a 1/2" ips x

1/2" ips straight valve (gate or ball) if you really want a cutoff at this location. To do this coming from the DW you would need 4 short nipples, 1 elbow, one valve and a new hose.

As in DW-nipple-elbow-nipple-valve-nipple-supply hose.

Be sure to buy a small tube of pipe dope if you go the ips route as this will save you much misery.

Colbyt

[Default User]

If your newsreader doesn't use a non-proportional font, then it's going to be garbage. Looks good in Thunderbird ;)

If you don't want to mess with the font in your newsreader, then you can view in Google, link is:

In the corner of the page will be: Fixed font - Proportional font. Click on Fixed font and it should be readable.

Right, but that's the other end of the line. There's no problem there. I'm concerned where the mesh cable attaches to the supply pipe.

At any rate, what I decided to do was get the 3/8 OD compression tee connector, and put a compression cap on the branch opposite the captive nut. See:

To the right angle branch, I attached a quarter-turn ball valve straight stop valve, then the dishwasher line to that.

Brian