may be cosmetic, but if an electrician opened a wall to add an outlet and said he'd make it look like it was always there and didn't paint the wall, well, I'd say that's wrong. The difference is, it's easy to paint a wall...
concrete they poured. I probably can't do a better job, but it's not what I do for a living (FYI these guys pretty much ONLY install drains into concrete floors).
My electrician gave me 2 prices on boxes. I patch, you patch.
I patched.
--Vic
Well then maybe the electrician analogy is flawed, because as I mentioned, I can paint a wall.
I didn't come here looking for an argument and clearly that's not true of everyone... I wanted to know if this always happens, because that's what the contractor told me. And clearly the answer is no, it can happen, but it isn't the rule.
So, while you all say don't ask them to redo it, I think I can ask them about doing something to remedy it, either use a chemical to get rid of the stain, or maybe cut it down a fraction of an inch and try a little more concrete... we'll see what they say.
On 1/24/2012 5:25 PM, snipped-for-privacy@brainchampagne.com wrote: ...
I'll take a guess...bring your checkbook to the conversation.
--
, I can paint a wall.
everyone... I wanted to know if this always happens, because that's what t= he contractor told me. And clearly the answer is no, it can happen, but it = isn't the rule.
bout doing something to remedy it, either use a chemical to get rid of the = stain, or maybe cut it down a fraction of an inch and try a little more con= crete... we'll see what they say.
No, you can not ask them... You accepted the work and paid for it already... You have been told several times that your complaint is one of cosmetics... It was a totally legitimate and common effect that happens -- concrete wicks and soaks up water -- in your case there was either something going on with iron deposits in or near the soil that was disturbed to do the work...
The failed drain pipe that was replaced wasn't by any chance cast-iron was it ?
Your issue with the appearance factor of this floor is totally unreasonable and is not within the realm of being legally actionable unless you clearly specified how the floor finish should appear when the work was completed... You did not, most such contracts are concerned with functionality and workmanlike manner of technique in residential jobs...
You were told that the only way that your floor would ever look like it did before the concrete was cut for the work to be done was if it was all one unified pour which is totally ridiculous to even attempt to assert that a plumber should ever do such a thing in a drain replacement project...
The contractor is not going to cut the concrete down a little and re pour it... Not just because you don't like the way it looks... If YOU don't like the way your floor looks you can have it painted... You keep harping on this but the work the plumber did to the drain is functional and the repaired floor is in compliance with code... That is all you paid for and all you are entitled to get...
~~ Evan
t may be cosmetic, but if an electrician opened a wall to add an outlet and= said he'd make it look like it was always there and didn't paint the wall,= well, I'd say that's wrong. The difference is, it's easy to paint a wall..= .
e concrete they poured. I probably can't do a better job, but it's not what= I do for a living (FYI these guys pretty much ONLY install drains into con= crete floors).
I think the whole crux of the issue is your lack of facility with English & preparation of specifications, coupled with rather unrealistic expectations as to the final result.
This is why there are general contractors.... good ones "translate" between the trades & the owner.
as an example, you translated "not a material defect" into "I wouldn't call it an 'immaterial defect.' " not an expression of the same concept. :(
Unfortunately you & the drain installer had a series of miscommunications..... live & learn. That's why it's called "experience".
btw what do you do for a living?
cheers Bob.
Seems a hell of a lot easier to get some CLR or similar rust remover for $5 and try it. I doubt anyone doing concrete work guarantees how the color of the job is going to turn out in the area where the old meets the new.
Also what I don't get is the refusal to paint the floor of a finished basement. I've yet to see what I'd call a finished basement where the floor is bare concrete. Most of the bare concrete basement floors I've seen have been far from uniform in color appearance, even those that have not been cut and patched.
better to intall tile, vinyl tile is cheap.
perhaps this floor has a water problem too?
On 1/24/2012 9:17 PM, Evan wrote: ...
He can _always_ ask...
--
Asking to do a change order AFTER accepting and paying for the work is akin to engaging in another contract...
The floor is done and was accepted as complete and that is that... Concrete work short of pouring a whole new slab will not accomplish what this OP wants...
He can paint or tile the floor to achieve his objective... I am starting to think a psychiatric hospital might be more appropriate in meeting his needs though...
~~ Evan
...
...
I think you missed the inflection, there...
I didn't say there was any chance he would get any satisfaction in response.
--
Actually, the OP might get satisfaction. The contractor might stop by with that $5 container of CLR or similar rust remover. Of course, if iit were you or I, we'd just go to the local hardware store and spend the $5 instead of trying to get the contractor to deal with it.
Wow some of you are nasty even by internet standards...
Never said it was anything other than cosmetic, but so what? They said they= 'd put in a sump pump drainage system, they didn't say they'd leave it look= ing way worse than it started.
I didn't come here accusing the contractor of anything. Feel free to actual= ly read the initial posting- where I simply asked if the discoloration was = normal.
Nobody 'accepted the work and paid for it' because when they poured the con= crete there was no discoloration, it happened after it cured. If my floor c= ollapsed later would you call that acceptance also? (and no, I'm not equati= ng the severity of the two)
There was no failed pipe that was replaced; as far as I know there's no iro= n around unless it's in the foundation (and the sewer lines are on the othe= r side of the house).
Legally actionable? Why are you jumping to the incorrect conclusion that an= y legal action is even being considered? Again, I simply asked if discolora= tion was normal.
Since none of you read the contract you don't know what I contracted for an= d paid for. Their marketing materials promise a clean finish and their phot= os do not show any discoloration.
Oh, and I did ask the contractor about painting the basement floor (and bef= ore some of the nastier posters here jump to conclusions, I meant my painti= ng it, not asking them to do it). He said that because concrete is porous a= nd moisture comes through it, paint on a basement floor lasts only around 3= years, then it starts to bubble and needs to be repainted. That wouldn't w= ork for me, I wouldn't want to have to move everything around every 3 years= to repaint.
ey'd put in a sump pump drainage system, they didn't say they'd leave it lo= oking way worse than it started.
ally read the initial posting- where I simply asked if the discoloration wa= s normal.
oncrete there was no discoloration, it happened after it cured. If my floor= collapsed later would you call that acceptance also? (and no, I'm not equa= ting the severity of the two)
ron around unless it's in the foundation (and the sewer lines are on the ot= her side of the house).
any legal action is even being considered? Again, I simply asked if discolo= ration was normal.
and paid for. Their marketing materials promise a clean finish and their ph= otos do not show any discoloration.
efore some of the nastier posters here jump to conclusions, I meant my pain= ting it, not asking them to do it). He said that because concrete is porous= and moisture comes through it, paint on a basement floor lasts only around= 3 years, then it starts to bubble and needs to be repainted. That wouldn't= work for me, I wouldn't want to have to move everything around every 3 yea= rs to repaint.
I did read your posting...
Sir, respectfully, your issue with the appearance and color of the floor is absolute baffoonery... Period... You can not even attempt any rationalization of your position which would not be viewed as craziness by an uninterested third party...
If the stain really bothers you try to clean it off yourself or you paint it to make it look "better" to you... "Looking way worse than it started" is in your highly biased, subjective, and totally inexperienced opinion... You will not win any sort of legal argument with only that to stand on as it is not legally sufficient evidence, it is your opinion and only that...
"Nobody 'accepted the work and paid for it' because when they poured the concrete there was no discoloration, it happened after it cured. If my floor collapsed later would you call that acceptance also? (and no, I'm not equating the severity of the two)"
Yes, you accepted the work and paid for it... The job was for functionality of the drain, not the color of the floor... If the floor collapsed later that would be a functional defect... You are complaining about the coloration of your floor which was a result of the unique conditions present in your home... As someone else here said, for what you paid for it and in a contract which doesn't involve concrete engineering specs and recipes which are precisely described and agreed upon no one will guarantee what a cured pour of concrete will look like appearance wise for color...
Legally Actionable: Legally sufficient to support a lawsuit in itself.
You don't even have an issue with which you could make a valid consumer report/complaint about let alone something which would result in anything other than a quite terse "case dismissed" from the hearing officer/judge after you try to explain your side of the issue in a small claims proceeding...
Your definition of a "clean finish" and what is the industry acceptable definition and standard working practices are definitely not in agreement... The industry standard applies here, not yours... If you thought you were going to end up with something that looked _exactly_ like the picture in the marketing materials in a brochure you definitely are in need of psychiatric services...
You were sold a drain system, you received a drain system... It is the functional ability of the installed devices which is the important factor here, not the exact coloration of the concrete nor the specific external appearance of the drain grating, etc...
As to the floor, if you can't paint it - which I highly doubt, because there are paints designed for garage floors that are wet both on the surface and underneath that endure that moisture and the physical abrasions of vehicle tires crunching grit on the painted surfaces which last quite a bit longer than 3 years when properly applied, then you will need to get over yourself and accept that if you can not clean whatever minor discoloration away with chemicals and you are not prepared to pay a concrete contractor to break up your slab and pour you a new perfectly clean and uniformly finished one that you will just have to accept what is and that is all there is to it...
This is why I *really* think you are either a troll, crazy or both...
~~ Evan
they'd put in a sump pump drainage system, they didn't say they'd leave it = looking way worse than it started.
tually read the initial posting- where I simply asked if the discoloration = was normal.
concrete there was no discoloration, it happened after it cured. If my flo= or collapsed later would you call that acceptance also? (and no, I'm not eq= uating the severity of the two)
iron around unless it's in the foundation (and the sewer lines are on the = other side of the house).
t any legal action is even being considered? Again, I simply asked if disco= loration was normal.
r and paid for. Their marketing materials promise a clean finish and their = photos do not show any discoloration.
before some of the nastier posters here jump to conclusions, I meant my pa= inting it, not asking them to do it). He said that because concrete is poro= us and moisture comes through it, paint on a basement floor lasts only arou= nd 3 years, then it starts to bubble and needs to be repainted. That wouldn= 't work for me, I wouldn't want to have to move everything around every 3 y= ears to repaint.
Anyone else wondering why the OP is still bitching instead of buying a $5 bottle of CLR or similar rust remover? I've recommended that about 3 times now and wasn't nasty either. But I might be working up to it soon.....
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